4 ms·

80 euro might be a reasonable price for having grasped an important truth about how Germany works.

bullianbp 5y ago
I understand that this came across as rude, but I'm not trying to say that Germany is a Kafkaesque hellhole. I love Germany. Simply this - there is no 'good faith' defense when breaking rules in Germany. If you have the wrong ticket, it doesn't matter that you tried to buy the right ticket and were sold the wrong ticket. It's your responsibility to have the right ticket, regardless of the actions of others, even other employees of the same organization. If you didn't know the rules, that's your problem, even if the rules are hard to understand. In Italy, I have seen the 'good faith' defense taken to extremes. "If you didn't want me to do (this clearly illegal and unapproved thing), why did (some other person in any official capacity) do (this very benign and pro-social thing which could be tortuously misinterpreted as an endorsement of the first thing)??" In Germany this doesn't exist. In some cases like the middle door of the bus, it will almost seem like entrapment. (The correct behavior would have been to go to the front door of the bus and require the driver to open it.) In many cases, it is only a pain to those who don't understand the system. Often, it is fairer since 'let this one slide officer' leads to discrimination by the officer.
- TMWNN 5y ago
  >I understand that this came across as rude, but I'm not trying to say that Germany is a Kafkaesque hellhole. I love Germany. Simply this - there is no 'good faith' defense when breaking rules in Germany. It's thought that Franklin Roosevelt's view of Germany and Germans' nature was affected by his being, as a young visitor, arrested four times in one day in the Black Forest (https://archive.org/details/rooseveltinretro00gunt/page/170/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/rooseveltinretro00gunt/page/170/...).

I understand that this came across as rude, but I'm not trying to say that Germany is a Kafkaesque hellhole. I love Germany. Simply this - there is no 'good faith' defense when breaking rules in Germany. If you have the wrong ticket, it doesn't matter that you tried to buy the right ticket and were sold the wrong ticket. It's your responsibility to have the right ticket, regardless of the actions of others, even other employees of the same organization. If you didn't know the rules, that's your problem, even if the rules are hard to understand. In Italy, I have seen the 'good faith' defense taken to extremes. "If you didn't want me to do (this clearly illegal and unapproved thing), why did (some other person in any official capacity) do (this very benign and pro-social thing which could be tortuously misinterpreted as an endorsement of the first thing)??" In Germany this doesn't exist. In some cases like the middle door of the bus, it will almost seem like entrapment. (The correct behavior would have been to go to the front door of the bus and require the driver to open it.) In many cases, it is only a pain to those who don't understand the system. Often, it is fairer since 'let this one slide officer' leads to discrimination by the officer.

TMWNN 5y ago
>I understand that this came across as rude, but I'm not trying to say that Germany is a Kafkaesque hellhole. I love Germany. Simply this - there is no 'good faith' defense when breaking rules in Germany. It's thought that Franklin Roosevelt's view of Germany and Germans' nature was affected by his being, as a young visitor, arrested four times in one day in the Black Forest (https://archive.org/details/rooseveltinretro00gunt/page/170/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/rooseveltinretro00gunt/page/170/...).