4 ms·

I agree that many people that didn't have a say in this will be affected. Do you have any suggestions on better measures that the EU could have taken? Or should

I agree that many people that didn't have a say in this will be affected. Do you have any suggestions on better measures that the EU could have taken? Or should the EU have taken no measures at all?

ceilingcorner 5y ago
No, they definitely should take some measures. Put stronger sanctions on those involved with the government, incentivize more immigration outside of Belarus, similar things. Banning Belarusian airlines will only affect regular people. Those in the government don't rely on public airlines anyway.
pydry 5y ago
I'm fairly sure Lukashenko/Putin was expecting (possibly even counting on) some kind of reaction. This has Putin's fingerprints all over it, actually. He set up a kind of win/win situation. Sanctions have a habit of backfiring at the best of times, and he's set up a situation where the hypocrisy of the EU/US can be hammered home in domestic propaganda with persistent comparisons to Morales/Snowden incident. It'll be hard for pro western Belarussian politicians/journalists to effectively rebut these. Meanwhile they can gently guide Belarussians into going on holiday in Russia where they might have gone to Europe if flights are banned. Isolating them this way would be a feature, not a bug. If, on the other hand, the EU/US just sanction a few individuals they look weak and Lukashenko looks strong. It's quite the pickle.
- ceilingcorner 5y ago
  Of course he did. It just got a lot harder for Belarusians to come to the West / Westerners to visit Belarus. You can now expect Belarus to cancel its 30 days visa-free entrance program, which requires that visitors entered the country through the airport. The actions by the EU only help Putin and Lukashenko.
dkirill 5y ago
Target the elite instead of the people
- morelisp 5y ago
  The elite have already been forbidden from entering or doing business with the EU since November.
  - dkirill 5y ago
    Then go after their offshores. Then start targeting their ties inside russian elite
    - morelisp 5y ago
      > Then go after their offshores. What, specifically, does this mean? The EU sanctions, idk, the Bahamas? Who? And how?
      - dkirill 5y ago
        I mean seize illegally earned money and/or forbid them and their families spending those money in the EU and other friendly jurisdictions. EU as a whole should have enough weight to make it happen if enough political will is present.
        morelisp 5y ago
        They are already forbidden to conduct any business, i.e. spend any money, in the EU. To literally "seize" the money stored in an offshore bank account is difficult unless the EU is also willing to march an army into those countries.
    - unionpivo 5y ago
      > Then go after their offshores. Nobody ever touches offshore havens since rich people from everywhere have money there. It took 9/11 for Switzerland to not laugh at law enforcement request from other countries. (Probably still laughs to anyone thats not US and maybe EU)

I agree that many people that didn't have a say in this will be affected. Do you have any suggestions on better measures that the EU could have taken? Or should the EU have taken no measures at all?

ceilingcorner 5y ago

No, they definitely should take some measures. Put stronger sanctions on those involved with the government, incentivize more immigration outside of Belarus, similar things. Banning Belarusian airlines will only affect regular people. Those in the government don't rely on public airlines anyway.

pydry 5y ago

I'm fairly sure Lukashenko/Putin was expecting (possibly even counting on) some kind of reaction. This has Putin's fingerprints all over it, actually. He set up a kind of win/win situation. Sanctions have a habit of backfiring at the best of times, and he's set up a situation where the hypocrisy of the EU/US can be hammered home in domestic propaganda with persistent comparisons to Morales/Snowden incident. It'll be hard for pro western Belarussian politicians/journalists to effectively rebut these. Meanwhile they can gently guide Belarussians into going on holiday in Russia where they might have gone to Europe if flights are banned. Isolating them this way would be a feature, not a bug. If, on the other hand, the EU/US just sanction a few individuals they look weak and Lukashenko looks strong. It's quite the pickle.

ceilingcorner 5y ago
Of course he did. It just got a lot harder for Belarusians to come to the West / Westerners to visit Belarus. You can now expect Belarus to cancel its 30 days visa-free entrance program, which requires that visitors entered the country through the airport. The actions by the EU only help Putin and Lukashenko.

dkirill 5y ago

Target the elite instead of the people

morelisp 5y ago
The elite have already been forbidden from entering or doing business with the EU since November.
- dkirill 5y ago
  Then go after their offshores. Then start targeting their ties inside russian elite
  - morelisp 5y ago
    > Then go after their offshores. What, specifically, does this mean? The EU sanctions, idk, the Bahamas? Who? And how?
    - dkirill 5y ago
      I mean seize illegally earned money and/or forbid them and their families spending those money in the EU and other friendly jurisdictions. EU as a whole should have enough weight to make it happen if enough political will is present.
      - morelisp 5y ago
        They are already forbidden to conduct any business, i.e. spend any money, in the EU. To literally "seize" the money stored in an offshore bank account is difficult unless the EU is also willing to march an army into those countries.
  - unionpivo 5y ago
    > Then go after their offshores. Nobody ever touches offshore havens since rich people from everywhere have money there. It took 9/11 for Switzerland to not laugh at law enforcement request from other countries. (Probably still laughs to anyone thats not US and maybe EU)