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But how often do Lukashenko and his circle actually fly out of Belarus anyway? He already had no problem with closing his own borders before anyway, so it's not

But how often do Lukashenko and his circle actually fly out of Belarus anyway? He already had no problem with closing his own borders before anyway, so it's not like this is going to seem like a strong move to him and it only really hurts the Belarusian people.

toyg 5y ago
They sanctioned individuals involved in the decision too. And at some point, the Belarusian people will have to take responsibility for their leaders. I'm not saying it should happen today or that they should start a civil war, but they should think about ways to change.
- zibzab 5y ago
  Bro, you don't seem to understand the concept of a dictatorship. You think people were fine until now but not being able to fly to Spain suddenly makes them see their error?
- mcky 5y ago
  You should read up on the opposition movement in Belarus before making such insensitive suggestions. Dissidents are regularly arrested, beaten and even raped, yet many turn out week after week to protest. Consider if you'd be brave enough to do what they already do first.
dandanua 5y ago
Dictators never rule alone, even though they suck all the attention. They have supporters and enablers. For example, a pilot of that MiG-29 fighter jet could blow a passenger plane if ordered so. Their police killed and tortured people that were on mass protests. Lukashenko doesn't have exclusive responsibility over this.
- mopsi 5y ago
  > Their police killed and tortured people that were on mass protests. And someone who beat and raped peaceful protesters just a month ago may walk by you in Venice beach, holding ice cream in one hand and leading his daughter with the other. And maybe he even has an older son or daughter who goes to UCLA or Stanford on the money he's pillaged. That's really common. Current sanctions target only the very top, but violent regimes have layers and layers of collaborators and their family members who come to the west to enjoy freedoms they deprive others of in their country. This should have much more focus. Let them be confined to the environment they create.
alkonaut 5y ago
> But how often do Lukashenko and his circle actually fly out of Belarus anyway If you are a Belorusian elite with kids in US and UK schools, money in Switzerland etc, living comfortably so long as Lukashenko is president. Then suddenly your assets are frozen, and your children can't travel to London when their next semester in the very expensive school starts. All because Lukashenko had to discipline some kid. You aren't going to be happy about that little stunt, and Lukashenko will be told.
- thu2111 5y ago
  That strategy has, I think, never worked in the history of dictatorships. It probably won't start working now.
  - alkonaut 5y ago
    It at least has a very low cost so even if it has marginal success it seems like an easy call. However, it can’t stop there. In this case, unfortunately, it has to get worse before it gets better for the average citizen in Belarus.
    - thu2111 5y ago
      I used to agree. These days I don't. I find it very harsh and unsympathetic to use a strategy that can be summed up as, "we will make your life as shit as possible in the hope that despite having no access to military power you nonetheless start a civil war in which you will probably die without achieving anything, and if you don't, you just won a civil war so your whole country is destroyed and lots of people hate you for it". If the west is serious about taking down foreign dictators it needs to man up and start assassinating them, either with hit squads or drone strikes. No pussyfooting around and hiding behind the hope that locals will get the blood on their hands so the foreign bureaucrats don't have to. And if the EU isn't willing to do that, then it should be trying to do what it can to make life better for the Belarusians, just like a doctor would try to help a sick patient even if they spent a lifetime smoking and thus in some way might have some culpability for it.

toyg 5y ago

They sanctioned individuals involved in the decision too. And at some point, the Belarusian people will have to take responsibility for their leaders. I'm not saying it should happen today or that they should start a civil war, but they should think about ways to change.

zibzab 5y ago
Bro, you don't seem to understand the concept of a dictatorship. You think people were fine until now but not being able to fly to Spain suddenly makes them see their error?
mcky 5y ago
You should read up on the opposition movement in Belarus before making such insensitive suggestions. Dissidents are regularly arrested, beaten and even raped, yet many turn out week after week to protest. Consider if you'd be brave enough to do what they already do first.

dandanua 5y ago

Dictators never rule alone, even though they suck all the attention. They have supporters and enablers. For example, a pilot of that MiG-29 fighter jet could blow a passenger plane if ordered so. Their police killed and tortured people that were on mass protests. Lukashenko doesn't have exclusive responsibility over this.

mopsi 5y ago
> Their police killed and tortured people that were on mass protests. And someone who beat and raped peaceful protesters just a month ago may walk by you in Venice beach, holding ice cream in one hand and leading his daughter with the other. And maybe he even has an older son or daughter who goes to UCLA or Stanford on the money he's pillaged. That's really common. Current sanctions target only the very top, but violent regimes have layers and layers of collaborators and their family members who come to the west to enjoy freedoms they deprive others of in their country. This should have much more focus. Let them be confined to the environment they create.

alkonaut 5y ago

> But how often do Lukashenko and his circle actually fly out of Belarus anyway If you are a Belorusian elite with kids in US and UK schools, money in Switzerland etc, living comfortably so long as Lukashenko is president. Then suddenly your assets are frozen, and your children can't travel to London when their next semester in the very expensive school starts. All because Lukashenko had to discipline some kid. You aren't going to be happy about that little stunt, and Lukashenko will be told.

thu2111 5y ago
That strategy has, I think, never worked in the history of dictatorships. It probably won't start working now.
- alkonaut 5y ago
  It at least has a very low cost so even if it has marginal success it seems like an easy call. However, it can’t stop there. In this case, unfortunately, it has to get worse before it gets better for the average citizen in Belarus.
  - thu2111 5y ago
    I used to agree. These days I don't. I find it very harsh and unsympathetic to use a strategy that can be summed up as, "we will make your life as shit as possible in the hope that despite having no access to military power you nonetheless start a civil war in which you will probably die without achieving anything, and if you don't, you just won a civil war so your whole country is destroyed and lots of people hate you for it". If the west is serious about taking down foreign dictators it needs to man up and start assassinating them, either with hit squads or drone strikes. No pussyfooting around and hiding behind the hope that locals will get the blood on their hands so the foreign bureaucrats don't have to. And if the EU isn't willing to do that, then it should be trying to do what it can to make life better for the Belarusians, just like a doctor would try to help a sick patient even if they spent a lifetime smoking and thus in some way might have some culpability for it.