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For me I'm waiting $N years till I consider getting a covid shot. According to the oxford calculator[0] my risk of hospitalization is microscopic so I take tha

For me I'm waiting $N years till I consider getting a covid shot. According to the oxford calculator[0] my risk of hospitalization is microscopic so I take that chance over trying out new under-tested vaxines. [0] https://qcovid.org/ https://qcovid.org/

kennywinker 5y ago
I for one value keeping my sense of smell and taste higher than the risks i’m seeing from vaccines - eliminating the risk of hospitalization is just a bonus
- squarefoot 5y ago
  I don't agree on waiting years for a vaccine, however the loss/alteration of sense of smell and taste is temporary. It can last more than the other symptoms, but usually after a few weeks it gets back to normal again. I got symptomatic Covid last October and the spike protein test taken at the end of March reports I still have several hundreds u/ml of anti-rbd antibodies, so I'll be reasonably safe for some time, but wouldn't recommend waiting to not immunized people. I had people dying next to my bed, and that is something I can't unsee for the rest of my life.
  - op00to 5y ago
    I think TV programming should be occasionally replaced with deidentified Covid ward footage.
    - rangoon626 5y ago
      You wanna force this on everyone? Cool. Then I get to enforce outlawing fast food consumption… especially things like Krispy Kreme donuts.
      - squarefoot 5y ago
        Forcing maybe not, but as educational tool, not unlike trips to WWII concentration camps for schools, I would offer a free visit to Covid wards to denialists and similar idiots. Once they see someone taken into a bed with a simple oxygen mask, then given a respirator helmet, then intubated, then pronounced dead in a few days, they probably change their perspective.
        op00to 5y ago
        Apparently perspective = “I get to ban fast food”.
      - op00to 5y ago
        Krispy Kreme is gross.
calvano915 5y ago
My fiance and I are holding out for same reasons.
- op00to 5y ago
  Your fiancé and yourself are selfish, then. Your risk pales to the cost of spreading the disease to those more vulnerable.
  - greenwich26 5y ago
    Is your behaviour in this thread a coping mechanism intended to relieve your own anxieties and make you feel good about yourself? Or is it a genuine attempt to convince vaccine skeptics by shaming and scorning them with appeals to emotion and ad hominem attacks? In any case, your arguments, if they can be called that, are very doubtful, in light of emerging evidence about the risks of the vaccine (see OP), and the diminishing infection rates in many countries.
  - overallduka 5y ago
    Vulnerable people are being vaccinated for that reason. Everyone has the right to choose what they will inject in their body or not.
  - dang 5y ago
    Please make your substantive points without personal attacks. Crossing into the flamewar style like this is guaranteed to make the discussion nastier and more predictable, which are two things we're trying to avoid on HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
agildehaus 5y ago
I hope you continue to social distance for $N years, because vaccination isn't just about you -- its about protecting those who would be at risk. It's also about reducing the risk of mutation. The more people it can infect, the greater the risk. We don't want to be dealing with a new variant that the vaccines don't protect against, and go back to square one. Being scared of a well-tested vaccine over a virus that has killed 3.5 million worldwide and continues to do so is ridiculous. The vaccine is why things are slowly starting to return to normal.
- incrudible 5y ago
  > I hope you continue to social distance for $N years, because vaccination isn't just about you -- its about protecting those who would be at risk. Those "at risk" should already have been vaccinated before the people "not at risk" have been. > It's also about reducing the risk of mutation. The more people it can infect, the greater the risk. It goes both ways: the more people that are vaccinated, the higher the selection pressure to evade the vaccination. > Being scared of a well-tested vaccine over a virus that has killed 3.5 million worldwide and continues to do so is ridiculous. Spare us your shaming, it has the opposite effect of what you intend it to have. > The vaccine is why things are slowly starting to return to normal. Notice how the narrative is slowly drifting from "protect the vulnerable, prevent the collapse of health care" to "every child needs to be vaccinated as soon as possible"? This is not "normal".
  - tehwebguy 5y ago
    Actually, vaccinating all kids is normal
    - Traubenfuchs 5y ago
      Yes, with proven vaccines against debiliating diseases.
      - bingbong70 5y ago
        Newly developed vaccines for debilitating diseases aren't given to children indiscriminately en masse. We are dealing with a completely different scale here and we should be more careful about it. Rushing the medical feedback process has huge potential downsides.
bsder 5y ago
So were the chances of two MMA fighters. And yet Covid ended the career of them both. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
- incrudible 5y ago
  Which ones?
  - bsder 5y ago
    Apparently they have unretired: https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/5-ufc-fighters-suffered-badly-contracting-covid-19 https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/5-ufc-fighters-suffered-badl... However, as you can see, young and fit is no protection. It's a roll of the dice.
    - incrudible 5y ago
      > It's a roll of the dice. So is getting the vaccine. It is a risk-reward calculation with many unknowns. The following must be kept in mind: For the younger population, there a strong incentive to exaggerate the risk of the virus and to downplay the risk of the vaccine, in order to maximize vaccinations and (hopefully) minimize overall mortality. I must assume that public health authorities act in the collective interest, not mine. Personally, I am unwilling to sacrifice myself for the "greater good", even if it's a really small risk. My individual risk of contracting COVID must exceed the individual risk of taking the vaccine. As long as that remains in question, I will remain hesitant.
- kybernetyk 5y ago
  I’d say that MMA is a pretty stupid game to play in itself.
op00to 5y ago
What’s your risk of killing someone by catching COVID and spreading it?
- kybernetyk 5y ago
  What’s our risk of killing someone in a car crash? Yet we still all drive.

kennywinker 5y ago

I for one value keeping my sense of smell and taste higher than the risks i’m seeing from vaccines - eliminating the risk of hospitalization is just a bonus

squarefoot 5y ago
I don't agree on waiting years for a vaccine, however the loss/alteration of sense of smell and taste is temporary. It can last more than the other symptoms, but usually after a few weeks it gets back to normal again. I got symptomatic Covid last October and the spike protein test taken at the end of March reports I still have several hundreds u/ml of anti-rbd antibodies, so I'll be reasonably safe for some time, but wouldn't recommend waiting to not immunized people. I had people dying next to my bed, and that is something I can't unsee for the rest of my life.
- op00to 5y ago
  I think TV programming should be occasionally replaced with deidentified Covid ward footage.
  - rangoon626 5y ago
    You wanna force this on everyone? Cool. Then I get to enforce outlawing fast food consumption… especially things like Krispy Kreme donuts.
    - squarefoot 5y ago
      Forcing maybe not, but as educational tool, not unlike trips to WWII concentration camps for schools, I would offer a free visit to Covid wards to denialists and similar idiots. Once they see someone taken into a bed with a simple oxygen mask, then given a respirator helmet, then intubated, then pronounced dead in a few days, they probably change their perspective.
      - op00to 5y ago
        Apparently perspective = “I get to ban fast food”.
    - op00to 5y ago
      Krispy Kreme is gross.

calvano915 5y ago

My fiance and I are holding out for same reasons.

op00to 5y ago
Your fiancé and yourself are selfish, then. Your risk pales to the cost of spreading the disease to those more vulnerable.
- greenwich26 5y ago
  Is your behaviour in this thread a coping mechanism intended to relieve your own anxieties and make you feel good about yourself? Or is it a genuine attempt to convince vaccine skeptics by shaming and scorning them with appeals to emotion and ad hominem attacks? In any case, your arguments, if they can be called that, are very doubtful, in light of emerging evidence about the risks of the vaccine (see OP), and the diminishing infection rates in many countries.
- overallduka 5y ago
  Vulnerable people are being vaccinated for that reason. Everyone has the right to choose what they will inject in their body or not.
- dang 5y ago
  Please make your substantive points without personal attacks. Crossing into the flamewar style like this is guaranteed to make the discussion nastier and more predictable, which are two things we're trying to avoid on HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

agildehaus 5y ago

I hope you continue to social distance for $N years, because vaccination isn't just about you -- its about protecting those who would be at risk. It's also about reducing the risk of mutation. The more people it can infect, the greater the risk. We don't want to be dealing with a new variant that the vaccines don't protect against, and go back to square one. Being scared of a well-tested vaccine over a virus that has killed 3.5 million worldwide and continues to do so is ridiculous. The vaccine is why things are slowly starting to return to normal.

incrudible 5y ago
> I hope you continue to social distance for $N years, because vaccination isn't just about you -- its about protecting those who would be at risk. Those "at risk" should already have been vaccinated before the people "not at risk" have been. > It's also about reducing the risk of mutation. The more people it can infect, the greater the risk. It goes both ways: the more people that are vaccinated, the higher the selection pressure to evade the vaccination. > Being scared of a well-tested vaccine over a virus that has killed 3.5 million worldwide and continues to do so is ridiculous. Spare us your shaming, it has the opposite effect of what you intend it to have. > The vaccine is why things are slowly starting to return to normal. Notice how the narrative is slowly drifting from "protect the vulnerable, prevent the collapse of health care" to "every child needs to be vaccinated as soon as possible"? This is not "normal".
- tehwebguy 5y ago
  Actually, vaccinating all kids is normal
  - Traubenfuchs 5y ago
    Yes, with proven vaccines against debiliating diseases.
    - bingbong70 5y ago
      Newly developed vaccines for debilitating diseases aren't given to children indiscriminately en masse. We are dealing with a completely different scale here and we should be more careful about it. Rushing the medical feedback process has huge potential downsides.

bsder 5y ago

So were the chances of two MMA fighters. And yet Covid ended the career of them both. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

incrudible 5y ago
Which ones?
- bsder 5y ago
  Apparently they have unretired: https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/5-ufc-fighters-suffered-badly-contracting-covid-19 https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/5-ufc-fighters-suffered-badl... However, as you can see, young and fit is no protection. It's a roll of the dice.
  - incrudible 5y ago
    > It's a roll of the dice. So is getting the vaccine. It is a risk-reward calculation with many unknowns. The following must be kept in mind: For the younger population, there a strong incentive to exaggerate the risk of the virus and to downplay the risk of the vaccine, in order to maximize vaccinations and (hopefully) minimize overall mortality. I must assume that public health authorities act in the collective interest, not mine. Personally, I am unwilling to sacrifice myself for the "greater good", even if it's a really small risk. My individual risk of contracting COVID must exceed the individual risk of taking the vaccine. As long as that remains in question, I will remain hesitant.
kybernetyk 5y ago
I’d say that MMA is a pretty stupid game to play in itself.

op00to 5y ago

What’s your risk of killing someone by catching COVID and spreading it?

kybernetyk 5y ago
What’s our risk of killing someone in a car crash? Yet we still all drive.