4 ms·

Crime has exploded across the US since the start of COVID, not just SF. So I'm not convinced Chesa is to blame. Which isn't too say I'm a big fan of his either.

by Gimpei 5y ago

Crime has exploded across the US since the start of COVID, not just SF. So I'm not convinced Chesa is to blame. Which isn't too say I'm a big fan of his either. Homelessness is indeed a problem, but according to the biannual survey, most of the unhoused are from the bay area. This suggested the crisis is the result of skyrocketing rents and the steady disappearance of SROs. Yet another thing we can thank Nimbys for. Shoplifting does appear to be a real issue, although it's unclear why it's so much worse in SF. Proposition 47 is statewide after all. I was born and raised in SF. Crime was much much worse in the 80s and 90s. Not saying we don't need changes, but it isn't a post apocalyptic hellhole... Yet.

olivermarks 5y ago
The biannual survey point in time counts of homeless across California are so wildly inaccurate and skewed there have been grand jury investigations and findings in counties such as California. There is a giant 'homeless industrial complex' that essentially operates on a model of the ore homeless to 'serve' the more money they ingest, buying motels at way over market rate as 'homes' for the seriously mentally ill and substance abuse casualties as if this will magically solve their issues. Bus therapy and general migration to where the grass is greenest is fueling this, along with very lenient drug law.
asdff 5y ago
I think the elephant in the room is the mental health crisis. You don't notice the person walking by you who lives in their car. You notice the person who is shoeless in traffic and screaming. We elected to close our mental health treatment facilities and turn these people out to the street to fend for themselves. Then when they deny offered treatment or shelter we claim they did it through their own volition and allow them to die on the sidewalk in confusion and poor health. This is the reality.
- olivermarks 5y ago
  There are only 6000 psych beds in all of California right now, but the state has spent 13 billion over the last 3 years on 'homeless'. Far more will be spent this year but the problems are getting worse. https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/audit-california-track-homeless-spending-set-policy-75835197 https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/audit-california-track-h...
  - asdff 5y ago
    It's baffling how short we are on the services we need in the richest state in the richest nation. LA county alone is anticipated to have over 100,000 homeless in the next few years. That's the population of Burbank. They aren't exactly sure how much over as they couldn't do the annual count this year, but COVID related job loss and expiring benefits should be of no help.
    - wearywanderer 5y ago
      Californian politicians are all embezzling criminals. How else can the discrepancy between the money supposedly going to these programs and these programs actually receiving next to nothing be explained?
      - dcow 5y ago
        It's not criminal if you call it a pension fund? Idk it baffles me too. I'd be entirely okay with higher taxes if they accomplished a single thing. But they don't. Also: Step 1. Get elected. Step 2. Convince a friend that they should really establish an organization to fight homelessness. Step 3. Impose a gross receipts tax to fund fighting homelessness, structured as financial support for "non-profits" with an aligned charter. Step 4. Leave office and serve on the board of the organization your "friend" established. End result: you've essentially elected yourself a salary paid for out of the communal treasury. The "let's just throw money at the problem" type of mindset is especially susceptible to supporting these taxes. They see the problem and obviously want to support solving it but don't follow up on the flow of money. IMO politicians should be required to be actively performing civic duties to be getting paid by tax money. And all taxes should default to being (or be required to be) repealed after a fixed term. The people must elect to re-impose the tax based on their perception of whether it was effective or not.
    - esyir 5y ago
      There's one huge issue here though, especially for a nation as liberty focused as the US. Many of the mentally ill, especially at higher levels of severity, do not seek nor desire treatment. How would one balance the issue of disrupted mental health, with clear impediments of decision-making, against violations of personal liberty, such as with forcible commitment.
plank_time 5y ago
Walgreens has closed over 17 stores due to increased shoplifting. It is 400% higher than the national average in SF. It’s higher in SF because the repercussions are much lower because SFPD doesn’t even bother looking. Look at the reaction to the theft of the camera. The police said the DA need video evidence, eyewitnesses don’t matter anymore, even with a picture of the car. The criminals are free to commit crimes consequence-free.
- paxys 5y ago
  While I'm sure shoplifting is a concern, where I lived (around Market/Van Ness) there were 4 or 5 Walgreens stores within a 3 block radius. And several CVS, Safeway, Whole Foods and many other smaller independent ones on top of that. And I (and everyone I know) still ordered everything on Amazon. A couple of them have since closed, and it was long overdue IMO. Shoplifting or not there was no way they were all profitable.
  - olivermarks 5y ago
    It' easy to find video online of thugs hopping over the counters of shops in San Francisco, hitting shop assistants and strolling out with armfuls of merchandise. They know they will not be caught or punished, so a lot of stores are just closing. People in affluent areas of SF seem oblivious to all this and keep voting - and donating - to the political class who tell them everything is finally going great... and they assume this is true. https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/walgreens-and-cvs-stores-in-san-francisco-forced-to-close/ https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/walgreens-and-cvs-stores... https://youtu.be/CLbvtRIo3i8 https://youtu.be/CLbvtRIo3i8
  - plank_time 5y ago
    My friend owns a Shoppers Drug Mart in Toronto. They employ the same strategy there too. In areas with high foot traffic they have a lot of stores close by to make it hard for anyone else to start a business in the area. It ends up being more overall profitable because they take all the sales in that area leaving it harder for newer competitors to operate profitably. ABC stores in Honolulu employ the same strategy. There are mutilple ABC stores on the same block sometimes.
babesh 5y ago
I was born and raised in SF as well. SF is beginning to look and feel like late 80’s/early 90’s SF. Increase in hate crimes against Asians. Car break-ins. Burglaries. Fewer people on the streets. I think part of what is happening is that criminals refocused on residents because there aren’t tourists around to prey on anymore. Chesa Boudin made it worse. No more bail so people accused of crime are free to sometimes commit more crime. $950 and below shoplifting is now a misdemeanor. Walgreens doesn’t even report the shoplifting anymore. They just closed stores. 13 and counting. SF does look a little cleaner now than a few months ago. The tent city at City Hall is hidden behind a fence. The tents in other parts of town tend to be clustered in alleys instead of along main streets. Still far fewer people walking around than before. Interestingly, the Marina looks as rich and lively as ever unlike many other parts of SF. The City feels dead. SF Chinatown looks and sounds more like Oakland Chinatown now. Quieter. Far less car traffic and traffic noise. Easier to find parking. Few tourists. Mostly locals.
- Apocryphon 5y ago
  Well, the pandemic and economic depression have certainly exacerbated things. I also doubt that tourism in most places in California will really resemble pre-quarantine times until at least June 15th.
  - babesh 5y ago
    Yes. The economic downturn definitely was another major cause. There was increased crime even in the suburbs. However, that crime was mostly car break-ins, catalytic converter thefts, garage break-ins, package thefts. Violent crime doesn’t seem to have increased much unlike in SF and apparently other big cities.
    - Apocryphon 5y ago
      Fair, but a lot of the anecdote details you mentioned aren't really attributable to the increase in violent crime. As mentioned elsewhere, Walgreens closing might be caused by economic downturn impacting a business strategy of market saturation (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27273139 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27273139 and second child post). The city also feels dead because tourism everywhere in the U.S. is currently dead. SF Chinatown is most definitely not comparable to the state of Oakland Chinatown: https://abc7news.com/man-shot-killed-in-broad-daylight-oaklands-chinatown/10689304/ https://abc7news.com/man-shot-killed-in-broad-daylight-oakla... Oakland's homicide rate is skyrocketing, but so are its housing prices. Goes to show that in the Bay Area as a whole, crime and desirability of living often fail to correlate. SF's problem might simply be people don't want to live in a dense area during a societal shutdown.

by Gimpei 5y ago

olivermarks 5y ago

The biannual survey point in time counts of homeless across California are so wildly inaccurate and skewed there have been grand jury investigations and findings in counties such as California. There is a giant 'homeless industrial complex' that essentially operates on a model of the ore homeless to 'serve' the more money they ingest, buying motels at way over market rate as 'homes' for the seriously mentally ill and substance abuse casualties as if this will magically solve their issues. Bus therapy and general migration to where the grass is greenest is fueling this, along with very lenient drug law.

asdff 5y ago

I think the elephant in the room is the mental health crisis. You don't notice the person walking by you who lives in their car. You notice the person who is shoeless in traffic and screaming. We elected to close our mental health treatment facilities and turn these people out to the street to fend for themselves. Then when they deny offered treatment or shelter we claim they did it through their own volition and allow them to die on the sidewalk in confusion and poor health. This is the reality.

olivermarks 5y ago
There are only 6000 psych beds in all of California right now, but the state has spent 13 billion over the last 3 years on 'homeless'. Far more will be spent this year but the problems are getting worse. https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/audit-california-track-homeless-spending-set-policy-75835197 https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/audit-california-track-h...
- asdff 5y ago
  It's baffling how short we are on the services we need in the richest state in the richest nation. LA county alone is anticipated to have over 100,000 homeless in the next few years. That's the population of Burbank. They aren't exactly sure how much over as they couldn't do the annual count this year, but COVID related job loss and expiring benefits should be of no help.
  - wearywanderer 5y ago
    Californian politicians are all embezzling criminals. How else can the discrepancy between the money supposedly going to these programs and these programs actually receiving next to nothing be explained?
    - dcow 5y ago
      It's not criminal if you call it a pension fund? Idk it baffles me too. I'd be entirely okay with higher taxes if they accomplished a single thing. But they don't. Also: Step 1. Get elected. Step 2. Convince a friend that they should really establish an organization to fight homelessness. Step 3. Impose a gross receipts tax to fund fighting homelessness, structured as financial support for "non-profits" with an aligned charter. Step 4. Leave office and serve on the board of the organization your "friend" established. End result: you've essentially elected yourself a salary paid for out of the communal treasury. The "let's just throw money at the problem" type of mindset is especially susceptible to supporting these taxes. They see the problem and obviously want to support solving it but don't follow up on the flow of money. IMO politicians should be required to be actively performing civic duties to be getting paid by tax money. And all taxes should default to being (or be required to be) repealed after a fixed term. The people must elect to re-impose the tax based on their perception of whether it was effective or not.
  - esyir 5y ago
    There's one huge issue here though, especially for a nation as liberty focused as the US. Many of the mentally ill, especially at higher levels of severity, do not seek nor desire treatment. How would one balance the issue of disrupted mental health, with clear impediments of decision-making, against violations of personal liberty, such as with forcible commitment.

plank_time 5y ago

Walgreens has closed over 17 stores due to increased shoplifting. It is 400% higher than the national average in SF. It’s higher in SF because the repercussions are much lower because SFPD doesn’t even bother looking. Look at the reaction to the theft of the camera. The police said the DA need video evidence, eyewitnesses don’t matter anymore, even with a picture of the car. The criminals are free to commit crimes consequence-free.

paxys 5y ago
While I'm sure shoplifting is a concern, where I lived (around Market/Van Ness) there were 4 or 5 Walgreens stores within a 3 block radius. And several CVS, Safeway, Whole Foods and many other smaller independent ones on top of that. And I (and everyone I know) still ordered everything on Amazon. A couple of them have since closed, and it was long overdue IMO. Shoplifting or not there was no way they were all profitable.
- olivermarks 5y ago
  It' easy to find video online of thugs hopping over the counters of shops in San Francisco, hitting shop assistants and strolling out with armfuls of merchandise. They know they will not be caught or punished, so a lot of stores are just closing. People in affluent areas of SF seem oblivious to all this and keep voting - and donating - to the political class who tell them everything is finally going great... and they assume this is true. https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/walgreens-and-cvs-stores-in-san-francisco-forced-to-close/ https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/walgreens-and-cvs-stores... https://youtu.be/CLbvtRIo3i8 https://youtu.be/CLbvtRIo3i8
- plank_time 5y ago
  My friend owns a Shoppers Drug Mart in Toronto. They employ the same strategy there too. In areas with high foot traffic they have a lot of stores close by to make it hard for anyone else to start a business in the area. It ends up being more overall profitable because they take all the sales in that area leaving it harder for newer competitors to operate profitably. ABC stores in Honolulu employ the same strategy. There are mutilple ABC stores on the same block sometimes.

babesh 5y ago

I was born and raised in SF as well. SF is beginning to look and feel like late 80’s/early 90’s SF. Increase in hate crimes against Asians. Car break-ins. Burglaries. Fewer people on the streets. I think part of what is happening is that criminals refocused on residents because there aren’t tourists around to prey on anymore. Chesa Boudin made it worse. No more bail so people accused of crime are free to sometimes commit more crime. $950 and below shoplifting is now a misdemeanor. Walgreens doesn’t even report the shoplifting anymore. They just closed stores. 13 and counting. SF does look a little cleaner now than a few months ago. The tent city at City Hall is hidden behind a fence. The tents in other parts of town tend to be clustered in alleys instead of along main streets. Still far fewer people walking around than before. Interestingly, the Marina looks as rich and lively as ever unlike many other parts of SF. The City feels dead. SF Chinatown looks and sounds more like Oakland Chinatown now. Quieter. Far less car traffic and traffic noise. Easier to find parking. Few tourists. Mostly locals.

Apocryphon 5y ago
Well, the pandemic and economic depression have certainly exacerbated things. I also doubt that tourism in most places in California will really resemble pre-quarantine times until at least June 15th.
- babesh 5y ago
  Yes. The economic downturn definitely was another major cause. There was increased crime even in the suburbs. However, that crime was mostly car break-ins, catalytic converter thefts, garage break-ins, package thefts. Violent crime doesn’t seem to have increased much unlike in SF and apparently other big cities.
  - Apocryphon 5y ago
    Fair, but a lot of the anecdote details you mentioned aren't really attributable to the increase in violent crime. As mentioned elsewhere, Walgreens closing might be caused by economic downturn impacting a business strategy of market saturation (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27273139 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27273139 and second child post). The city also feels dead because tourism everywhere in the U.S. is currently dead. SF Chinatown is most definitely not comparable to the state of Oakland Chinatown: https://abc7news.com/man-shot-killed-in-broad-daylight-oaklands-chinatown/10689304/ https://abc7news.com/man-shot-killed-in-broad-daylight-oakla... Oakland's homicide rate is skyrocketing, but so are its housing prices. Goes to show that in the Bay Area as a whole, crime and desirability of living often fail to correlate. SF's problem might simply be people don't want to live in a dense area during a societal shutdown.