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Have you guys ever wondered that if the core fundamental definition of life just starts off as some molecule that self replicates. And that the resulting comple

Have you guys ever wondered that if the core fundamental definition of life just starts off as some molecule that self replicates. And that the resulting complexity of life is just errors that happen during replication that are naturally selected to reverse entropy, then could there be other forms of life that are not based on water or carbon? I get that the carbon atom and water facilitates organic chemistry which results in tons and tons of complicated permutations and configurations of molecules necessary for life but are there other atoms in other conditions that allow permutations that that are equal in complexity? Could some form of life be non-carbon based life be able to exist say in the middle of the sun? I heard deep in Jupiter's atmosphere is a sea of liquid metal hydrogen. Could a different form of life exist as non-organic chemistry with high pressure liquid hydrogen as an integral part of the self replicating machinery? Any experts on bio molecular stuff care to weigh in? I'm positive this stuff has been speculated on, but I've also heard that a lot of experts don't consider non-carbon based life without water to be viable or likely simply because organic chemistry facilitates so many complex chemical permutations necessary for life.

NegativeLatency 5y ago
Probably hard to form stable molecules and arrangements of molecules with all that plasma and energetic electrons bouncing around
adrian_b 5y ago
There are chances that it is possible to have some slower form of life at much lower temperatures than on Earth, where the elements H, C, N, O and S still have the major contribution but instead of water some other solvent is used, e.g. hydrocarbons or ammonia. On the other hand, at very high temperatures, e.g. in the Sun, life is certainly impossible because you cannot have even molecules, much less more complex structures. Everything is a homogeneous mixture of atoms, ions and electrons and any kind of structure would be broken instantly by the agitation of the particles. If there is any metallic hydrogen on Jupiter, it can be found nowhere close to the atmosphere, but in the core of the planet, at extreme pressures.
philipswood 5y ago
There's this cool essay by Isaac Asimov considering viable chemistries for life: "Not as we know it. The chemistry of life" http://www.bigear.org/CSMO/HTML/CS09/cs09p05.htm http://www.bigear.org/CSMO/HTML/CS09/cs09p05.htm I was surprised to realise (that besides being a prolific author) that he was a professor of biochemistry. He ends up with a: "list of life chemistries, spanning the temperature range from near red heat down to near absolute zero: 1. fluorosilicone in fluorosilicone 2. fluorocarbon in sulfur 3.*nucleic acid/protein (O) in water 4. nucleic acid/protein (N) in ammonia 5. lipid in methane 6. lipid in hydrogen Of this half dozen, the third only is life-as-we-know-it. Lest you miss it, I've marked it with an asterisk."
- adrian_b 5y ago
  The lower temperature chemistries listed above may exist on planets far from the stars. However the high-temperature chemistries based on fluorine do not have any chances to be found in the nature. Fluorine is much less abundant than the major bioelements and it is extremely reactive, so whatever fluorine exists, especially at high temperatures, will be combined with the abundant electropositive metals, i.e. mainly with calcium, but also with sodium or aluminum, forming inert minerals, like apatite, criolite, micas etc., not organic molecules or fluoro-silicones.
AngryData 5y ago
Personally, I view life as just a self-catalyzing reaction. There seems to be few if any hard rules for life because we seem to always find exceptions. The amount of chemical reactions available is near endless and combined with the sheer number of environments within the universe and there is bound to be other self-catalyzing reactions that could potentially turn into life. There are many reactions that we have no idea even exist because it requires slightly higher or lower pressure or unique atmospheres or environmental conditions that aren't common on Earth, but are common throughout the wider universe.
- cout 5y ago
  What is a "self-catalyzing reaction"? Would nuclear fission or fusion count? What about reactions involving free radicals, where the catalyst is a reaction product? Is the "self-catalyzing reaction" sufficient on its own to classify something as life?

NegativeLatency 5y ago

Probably hard to form stable molecules and arrangements of molecules with all that plasma and energetic electrons bouncing around

adrian_b 5y ago

There are chances that it is possible to have some slower form of life at much lower temperatures than on Earth, where the elements H, C, N, O and S still have the major contribution but instead of water some other solvent is used, e.g. hydrocarbons or ammonia. On the other hand, at very high temperatures, e.g. in the Sun, life is certainly impossible because you cannot have even molecules, much less more complex structures. Everything is a homogeneous mixture of atoms, ions and electrons and any kind of structure would be broken instantly by the agitation of the particles. If there is any metallic hydrogen on Jupiter, it can be found nowhere close to the atmosphere, but in the core of the planet, at extreme pressures.

philipswood 5y ago

There's this cool essay by Isaac Asimov considering viable chemistries for life: "Not as we know it. The chemistry of life" http://www.bigear.org/CSMO/HTML/CS09/cs09p05.htm http://www.bigear.org/CSMO/HTML/CS09/cs09p05.htm I was surprised to realise (that besides being a prolific author) that he was a professor of biochemistry. He ends up with a: "list of life chemistries, spanning the temperature range from near red heat down to near absolute zero: 1. fluorosilicone in fluorosilicone 2. fluorocarbon in sulfur 3.*nucleic acid/protein (O) in water 4. nucleic acid/protein (N) in ammonia 5. lipid in methane 6. lipid in hydrogen Of this half dozen, the third only is life-as-we-know-it. Lest you miss it, I've marked it with an asterisk."

adrian_b 5y ago
The lower temperature chemistries listed above may exist on planets far from the stars. However the high-temperature chemistries based on fluorine do not have any chances to be found in the nature. Fluorine is much less abundant than the major bioelements and it is extremely reactive, so whatever fluorine exists, especially at high temperatures, will be combined with the abundant electropositive metals, i.e. mainly with calcium, but also with sodium or aluminum, forming inert minerals, like apatite, criolite, micas etc., not organic molecules or fluoro-silicones.

AngryData 5y ago

Personally, I view life as just a self-catalyzing reaction. There seems to be few if any hard rules for life because we seem to always find exceptions. The amount of chemical reactions available is near endless and combined with the sheer number of environments within the universe and there is bound to be other self-catalyzing reactions that could potentially turn into life. There are many reactions that we have no idea even exist because it requires slightly higher or lower pressure or unique atmospheres or environmental conditions that aren't common on Earth, but are common throughout the wider universe.

cout 5y ago
What is a "self-catalyzing reaction"? Would nuclear fission or fusion count? What about reactions involving free radicals, where the catalyst is a reaction product? Is the "self-catalyzing reaction" sufficient on its own to classify something as life?