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So the "hostile takeover" narrative was nothing but a smear campaign. Had staff said "It's come to our attention freenode is owned by a privately owned company

So the "hostile takeover" narrative was nothing but a smear campaign. Had staff said "It's come to our attention freenode is owned by a privately owned company, something we can't stand behind. Join us at Libera Chat to participate in a truly community-owned network," everyone would still gladly side with and support them. Instead, they are portraying someone as a hostile actor when there is no evidence of that. This casualty is dishonest — Christel sought Andrew out for the sale, not the other way around, and Andrew never tried to exert control in 9 years of direct or indirect sponsorship. If you have evidence to suggest Andrew intentionally tried to gain control before his DNS access was revoked, please let me know as I've been compiling an extensive timeline of events [1]. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27250514 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27250514

jart 5y ago
Here's the statement from the Andrew Lee himself: https://gist.github.com/realrasengan/88549ec34ee32d01629354e4075d2d48 https://gist.github.com/realrasengan/88549ec34ee32d01629354e... according to hackaday https://hackaday.com/2021/05/20/freenode-debacle-prompts-staff-exodus-new-network/ https://hackaday.com/2021/05/20/freenode-debacle-prompts-sta... I have no idea who this tomaw person is and why they all hate Lee so much, or why they accuse him of bribery when he offers to pay his volunteers. I mean if you're just some scrappy online hacker and the crown fucking prince of a wealthy country reaches out to you directly and says he needs your support: you say yes!
- wearywanderer 5y ago
  Not everybody is so easily impressed by the bullshit titles claimed by pretenders.
- aahortwwy 5y ago
  > the crown fucking prince of a wealthy country South Korea is a republic.
  - marcescence 5y ago
    He is quite literally the crown prince of the Yi dynasty, the latest imperial lineage of Korea [1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Lee_(entrepreneur) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Lee_(entrepreneur)
    - aahortwwy 5y ago
      I know who he is. Neither the Republic of Korea or the DPRK have a monarchy at this moment in history.
  - jart 5y ago
    South Korea is part of America's club. Their prince was raised in Indiana as an American. There appears to be folks out there who view Korea as his birthright. Real magnanimous of us that we won't even let him run an IRC network he lawfully purchased. Talk about haan. As far as I can tell, he was just trying to help, and make IRC be more competitive with Slack.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
rektide 5y ago
this is a nasty incursion of sovereignty & old rules into a place which has existed for a long time peacefully without them. against the will of a traditionally self-ruling population. this is a core violation of A Declaration of Independence of Cyberspace[1], and everything about what has happened is a political aggression against core held beliefs of some (often early, often technical) of the internet. it is absolutely a hostile takeover. [1] https://www.eff.org/cyberspace-independence https://www.eff.org/cyberspace-independence
- rektide 5y ago
  you start your qualms with a strong disagreement of this: > In 2017, Christel Dahlskjaer—who was, at the time, head of Freenode staff—created a corporation, Freenode Ltd., which she immediately sold to Lee saying, "That's hardly immediate". but this is going from a peaceful, organized, well running multi-decade old community (since 1995 under it's original domain irc.linpeople.org) to an owned, private entity, then sold, in ~7 months. everything about this radical theft is immediate, all of the time-scales are radically short here. this is absolutely a well coordinated theft, and it's done by propertiests, by owners, claiming & taking from the free & community. at a lightning pace.
  - hn-detective 5y ago
    Because the wording in the article implies that Andrew was the force behind the incorporation of Freenode Limited just for the sake of acquisition, but there's no evidence for that. By all accounts, Christel herself incorporated and reached out to Andrew looking to sell it. Christel backstabbed the community, that much is clear. But Andrew himself never tried to manipulate the network at any point. So much so that from 2017 to 2021 no one protested Freenode Limited's involvement. That's my only issue with the situation. Let me be extra clear: I believe freenode/libera.chat should NOT be owned by a private company. But to paint this as "Andrew is evil and trying to control us!" is disingenuous. Just say it like it is: let's liberate the community at Libera Chat. Don't try to manipulate people into despising someone who sponsored the project for 9 years. Again: please, if you have any evidence that Andrew intervened in the community's affairs other than sponsoring it and letting Christel and the staff free to manage it as they pleased, since 2012, let us know.

jart 5y ago

Here's the statement from the Andrew Lee himself: https://gist.github.com/realrasengan/88549ec34ee32d01629354e4075d2d48 https://gist.github.com/realrasengan/88549ec34ee32d01629354e... according to hackaday https://hackaday.com/2021/05/20/freenode-debacle-prompts-staff-exodus-new-network/ https://hackaday.com/2021/05/20/freenode-debacle-prompts-sta... I have no idea who this tomaw person is and why they all hate Lee so much, or why they accuse him of bribery when he offers to pay his volunteers. I mean if you're just some scrappy online hacker and the crown fucking prince of a wealthy country reaches out to you directly and says he needs your support: you say yes!

wearywanderer 5y ago
Not everybody is so easily impressed by the bullshit titles claimed by pretenders.
aahortwwy 5y ago
> the crown fucking prince of a wealthy country South Korea is a republic.
- marcescence 5y ago
  He is quite literally the crown prince of the Yi dynasty, the latest imperial lineage of Korea [1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Lee_(entrepreneur) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Lee_(entrepreneur)
  - aahortwwy 5y ago
    I know who he is. Neither the Republic of Korea or the DPRK have a monarchy at this moment in history.
- jart 5y ago
  South Korea is part of America's club. Their prince was raised in Indiana as an American. There appears to be folks out there who view Korea as his birthright. Real magnanimous of us that we won't even let him run an IRC network he lawfully purchased. Talk about haan. As far as I can tell, he was just trying to help, and make IRC be more competitive with Slack.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

rektide 5y ago

this is a nasty incursion of sovereignty & old rules into a place which has existed for a long time peacefully without them. against the will of a traditionally self-ruling population. this is a core violation of A Declaration of Independence of Cyberspace[1], and everything about what has happened is a political aggression against core held beliefs of some (often early, often technical) of the internet. it is absolutely a hostile takeover. [1] https://www.eff.org/cyberspace-independence https://www.eff.org/cyberspace-independence

rektide 5y ago
you start your qualms with a strong disagreement of this: > In 2017, Christel Dahlskjaer—who was, at the time, head of Freenode staff—created a corporation, Freenode Ltd., which she immediately sold to Lee saying, "That's hardly immediate". but this is going from a peaceful, organized, well running multi-decade old community (since 1995 under it's original domain irc.linpeople.org) to an owned, private entity, then sold, in ~7 months. everything about this radical theft is immediate, all of the time-scales are radically short here. this is absolutely a well coordinated theft, and it's done by propertiests, by owners, claiming & taking from the free & community. at a lightning pace.
- hn-detective 5y ago
  Because the wording in the article implies that Andrew was the force behind the incorporation of Freenode Limited just for the sake of acquisition, but there's no evidence for that. By all accounts, Christel herself incorporated and reached out to Andrew looking to sell it. Christel backstabbed the community, that much is clear. But Andrew himself never tried to manipulate the network at any point. So much so that from 2017 to 2021 no one protested Freenode Limited's involvement. That's my only issue with the situation. Let me be extra clear: I believe freenode/libera.chat should NOT be owned by a private company. But to paint this as "Andrew is evil and trying to control us!" is disingenuous. Just say it like it is: let's liberate the community at Libera Chat. Don't try to manipulate people into despising someone who sponsored the project for 9 years. Again: please, if you have any evidence that Andrew intervened in the community's affairs other than sponsoring it and letting Christel and the staff free to manage it as they pleased, since 2012, let us know.