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I don't think I am talking about Swift. The compilation is slow because of LLVM and you still have to handle cyclic references because of ref counting. As you s

by Zababa 5y ago

I don't think I am talking about Swift. The compilation is slow because of LLVM and you still have to handle cyclic references because of ref counting. As you said too, library support isn't great. I don't know how exactly is the dev experience too, at least outside of XCode. Last time I played a bit with it, adding the language server to VSCode was a bit of a pain. Still, I think Swift is a step in the right direction. I've heard good things about Nim too for this niche but never tried it. I think it'll suffer from the same problem of not being able to leverage an existing ecosystem though.

kinjba11 5y ago
Nim compiles to C (through C?), so at least leveraging the C/C++ ecosystem is straightforward/first class. It is certainly difficult to justify breaking away from the huge established multiple decade ecosystems and standard libraries seen with the JVM/.NET/Python platforms for instance. https://nim-lang.org/docs/backends.html#interfacing https://nim-lang.org/docs/backends.html#interfacing
- Zababa 5y ago
  OCaml is also pretty good at leveraging the C ecosystem, but that's not what people are looking for in a "garbage collected Rust". If they want something close to C they'll just use Rust. What they're looking for is something easier to write that still looks like Rust and having all the developer experience that Rust has. For this, the Nim ecosystem is way too small and can't leverage an existing platform. The same do apply to OCaml and Swift so it's not a Nim specific problem, it's just that Nim doesn't bring much compared to OCaml.
  - kinjba11 5y ago
    For what it's worth, OCaml is a great under-appreciated language forever dented by ugly (in my opinion) syntax and oddities like different operators for floats and ints. There's a good reason the folks behind the Reason ML fork changed things up. Swift is another great language - forever dented by being tied hand and foot to the Apple holy garden and Objective-C legacy and runtime with memory-related keywords such as 'weak' and 'unowned'. Nim (and perhaps D) are the closest in my mind to the "garbage collected Rust" in that they are not only garbage collected, but they are procedural-oriented, can write highly generic code and macros, and come with near-C performance. Given the "Pythonic Rust" title, another edge Nim has is its semantic whitespace, very Python-esque syntax.

by Zababa 5y ago

kinjba11 5y ago

Nim compiles to C (through C?), so at least leveraging the C/C++ ecosystem is straightforward/first class. It is certainly difficult to justify breaking away from the huge established multiple decade ecosystems and standard libraries seen with the JVM/.NET/Python platforms for instance. https://nim-lang.org/docs/backends.html#interfacing https://nim-lang.org/docs/backends.html#interfacing

Zababa 5y ago
OCaml is also pretty good at leveraging the C ecosystem, but that's not what people are looking for in a "garbage collected Rust". If they want something close to C they'll just use Rust. What they're looking for is something easier to write that still looks like Rust and having all the developer experience that Rust has. For this, the Nim ecosystem is way too small and can't leverage an existing platform. The same do apply to OCaml and Swift so it's not a Nim specific problem, it's just that Nim doesn't bring much compared to OCaml.
- kinjba11 5y ago
  For what it's worth, OCaml is a great under-appreciated language forever dented by ugly (in my opinion) syntax and oddities like different operators for floats and ints. There's a good reason the folks behind the Reason ML fork changed things up. Swift is another great language - forever dented by being tied hand and foot to the Apple holy garden and Objective-C legacy and runtime with memory-related keywords such as 'weak' and 'unowned'. Nim (and perhaps D) are the closest in my mind to the "garbage collected Rust" in that they are not only garbage collected, but they are procedural-oriented, can write highly generic code and macros, and come with near-C performance. Given the "Pythonic Rust" title, another edge Nim has is its semantic whitespace, very Python-esque syntax.