4 ms·

Steam is DRM, but it adds so much value. I prefer to use Steam (with the DRM) than I do to use a game that doesn't have any DRM because of how much Steam improv

Steam is DRM, but it adds so much value. I prefer to use Steam (with the DRM) than I do to use a game that doesn't have any DRM because of how much Steam improves the process of purchasing, installing, downloading and updating games. DRM done right (eg: Steam) can be awesome.

devicenull 15y ago
It's gotten to the point where I'll only buy game on Steam, because I know the experience will be 100x better then any of it's competitors. (GFWL for example, is the worst piece of software I've ever used)
slowpoke 15y ago
That's just obfuscating what DRM really is. Sure, it's cool and convenient to use Steam, but it's still DRM. Gold-coated feces, if you'd prefer an analogy. Just for example, you don't actually own the game, and you can't do with it whatever you want. tl;dr: Convenience is not a justification for restrictions.
- ugh 15y ago
  That’s an odd position, isn’t it? I have no problem believing that what you are saying is your opinion but I see no reason why everyone should be of the same opinion. Why can’t I be perfectly fine with not owning the game and not being able to do with it whatever I want in exchange for the convenience of Steam? What’s wrong with that? I can understand that you believe that those terms are not acceptable but why do you want to force me to believe the same? Even after understanding perfectly what Steam’s terms entail I still think that buying games there is a good idea. What now?
  - bad_user 15y ago
    I don't think people are complaining that games should be free of charge. People are complaining that all of a sudden, the copyright law itself is not enough. DRM is broken by design because (a) there is no DRM system that hasn't been cracked yet and (b) it punishes honest customers. Not only that, but many DRM systems require online servers to be active. You don't own the copy you purchased anymore and as soon as that verification server gets shut-down, then your local copy won't work anymore; unless you knowingly break the DMCA to workaround the DRM restrictions (which is always illegal, even if you own the copyright of said content / being the freaking author). For me, it is far more convenient to just start downloading a torrent from the dozens of trackers I have access to, than pay up for DRMed content and get punished. That I pay for the apps or other content I use, that's just because the authors deserve getting rewarded and usually it's not their fault that the distribution medium is using DRM; but when it is, that feels like a dick-move to me and I feel no remorse turning to piracy or not using the product at all.
    - GHFigs 15y ago
      When you pirate a game, do you also pay for it?
      - TheAmazingIdiot 15y ago
        Those who break technological restrictions (DRM) break the law via the DMCA. Those who download a 'pirated game' do not violate any laws, as far as who has been prosecuted. Those who UPLOAD a pirated game can be busted for breaking copyright laws, as you made a copy to someone else. My answer: I do not pay for DRM games. Its illegal for me to 'fix' them, so I pirate. And it saves me money. Start respecting my rights as a user and Ill acknowledge your rights as a creator.
        GHFigs 15y ago
        And it saves me money. You could save just as much money by not playing the game at all.
    - ugh 15y ago
      I did not claim that people want games to be free of charge. Why do you think I did? Again, I know that’s your position but why should I share that position? I’m alright with not owning the game, alright with losing access if the servers go down. It’s ok for me, I don’t care.
      - bad_user 15y ago
        Yeah, sorry, I thought you meant it from the following: Even after understanding perfectly what Steam’s terms entail I still think that buying games there is a good idea Either way, in general the justification for DRM is to reduce piracy, but it doesn't do a good job IMHO -- for instance, I can find DVD-quality pirated movies two weeks after it has been released in theaters, far faster than the availability of said movies on DVD or Blueray. What would work better is to stop punishing honest customers and educate people about the need of the industry to have profits. For instance I go out of my way to buy the music albums of my 3 favorite bands, just to keep them producing the music I like. And one of them has been in business since 1977, being able to survive for 3 decades, while dozens of others have died after 1 or 2 years, complaining about piracy (like the non-existence of piracy would make their music suck less).
viraptor 15y ago
You're claiming you prefer a game distribution system with DRM to a game with no DRM applied. Do you see the flawed comparison here? First you compare the distribution system to the game itself. Then you don't take into account what a game could be distributed like... So lets give this a try: To buy a specific game on steam, I have to 1) get steam 2) find the game I knew I wanted to buy 3) pay for it 4) download it. When I bought World of Goo, I did exactly the same steps, apart from the first one - but I got more out of it - I got a link for the binaries AND I can use them anywhere I want or keep them around in whatever way I want. Why would you prefer to get less in more steps? Of course, many companies seem to try to make this process as painful as possible. That's not an argument for DRM though, but against stupid ways of distribution.

devicenull 15y ago

It's gotten to the point where I'll only buy game on Steam, because I know the experience will be 100x better then any of it's competitors. (GFWL for example, is the worst piece of software I've ever used)

slowpoke 15y ago

That's just obfuscating what DRM really is. Sure, it's cool and convenient to use Steam, but it's still DRM. Gold-coated feces, if you'd prefer an analogy. Just for example, you don't actually own the game, and you can't do with it whatever you want. tl;dr: Convenience is not a justification for restrictions.

ugh 15y ago
That’s an odd position, isn’t it? I have no problem believing that what you are saying is your opinion but I see no reason why everyone should be of the same opinion. Why can’t I be perfectly fine with not owning the game and not being able to do with it whatever I want in exchange for the convenience of Steam? What’s wrong with that? I can understand that you believe that those terms are not acceptable but why do you want to force me to believe the same? Even after understanding perfectly what Steam’s terms entail I still think that buying games there is a good idea. What now?
- bad_user 15y ago
  I don't think people are complaining that games should be free of charge. People are complaining that all of a sudden, the copyright law itself is not enough. DRM is broken by design because (a) there is no DRM system that hasn't been cracked yet and (b) it punishes honest customers. Not only that, but many DRM systems require online servers to be active. You don't own the copy you purchased anymore and as soon as that verification server gets shut-down, then your local copy won't work anymore; unless you knowingly break the DMCA to workaround the DRM restrictions (which is always illegal, even if you own the copyright of said content / being the freaking author). For me, it is far more convenient to just start downloading a torrent from the dozens of trackers I have access to, than pay up for DRMed content and get punished. That I pay for the apps or other content I use, that's just because the authors deserve getting rewarded and usually it's not their fault that the distribution medium is using DRM; but when it is, that feels like a dick-move to me and I feel no remorse turning to piracy or not using the product at all.
  - GHFigs 15y ago
    When you pirate a game, do you also pay for it?
    - TheAmazingIdiot 15y ago
      Those who break technological restrictions (DRM) break the law via the DMCA. Those who download a 'pirated game' do not violate any laws, as far as who has been prosecuted. Those who UPLOAD a pirated game can be busted for breaking copyright laws, as you made a copy to someone else. My answer: I do not pay for DRM games. Its illegal for me to 'fix' them, so I pirate. And it saves me money. Start respecting my rights as a user and Ill acknowledge your rights as a creator.
      - GHFigs 15y ago
        And it saves me money. You could save just as much money by not playing the game at all.
  - ugh 15y ago
    I did not claim that people want games to be free of charge. Why do you think I did? Again, I know that’s your position but why should I share that position? I’m alright with not owning the game, alright with losing access if the servers go down. It’s ok for me, I don’t care.
    - bad_user 15y ago
      Yeah, sorry, I thought you meant it from the following: Even after understanding perfectly what Steam’s terms entail I still think that buying games there is a good idea Either way, in general the justification for DRM is to reduce piracy, but it doesn't do a good job IMHO -- for instance, I can find DVD-quality pirated movies two weeks after it has been released in theaters, far faster than the availability of said movies on DVD or Blueray. What would work better is to stop punishing honest customers and educate people about the need of the industry to have profits. For instance I go out of my way to buy the music albums of my 3 favorite bands, just to keep them producing the music I like. And one of them has been in business since 1977, being able to survive for 3 decades, while dozens of others have died after 1 or 2 years, complaining about piracy (like the non-existence of piracy would make their music suck less).

viraptor 15y ago

You're claiming you prefer a game distribution system with DRM to a game with no DRM applied. Do you see the flawed comparison here? First you compare the distribution system to the game itself. Then you don't take into account what a game could be distributed like... So lets give this a try: To buy a specific game on steam, I have to 1) get steam 2) find the game I knew I wanted to buy 3) pay for it 4) download it. When I bought World of Goo, I did exactly the same steps, apart from the first one - but I got more out of it - I got a link for the binaries AND I can use them anywhere I want or keep them around in whatever way I want. Why would you prefer to get less in more steps? Of course, many companies seem to try to make this process as painful as possible. That's not an argument for DRM though, but against stupid ways of distribution.