5 ms·

Because we need accountability. This whole disaster of denying a problem, till it was a catastrophe, talking it small, until it was a pandemic, failing institut

Because we need accountability. This whole disaster of denying a problem, till it was a catastrophe, talking it small, until it was a pandemic, failing institutions and failing systems (face before scientific truth) is a liability that needs to be dismantled.

avs733 5y ago
pushing a view point isn't accountability. it is the opposite of accountability. you say face before scientific truth but the people pushing this theory are not focused on scientific truth anymore than you think China is.
- Florin_Andrei 5y ago
  You don't get it. They absolutely need accountability produced somehow, even out of thin air if need be.
  - avs733 5y ago
    watching these conversations, I see this as the most fundamental comment as to what is going on.
captainmuon 5y ago
The idea of accountability is the thing that is holding back the investigation. Because if China were found "culpable", there is no way they could pay compensation for the trillions of economic damage and all the lifes lost. Not even the geopolitical oppenents of China are willing to go there. What we need is to prevent further such incidents in the future. So if the question of accountability is off the table, lets just think about what the consequence would be if the virus was an accidential lab escape (from any country). We should immediately take measures such that that never happens again. That means increasing the safety measures and transparency, and possibly banning gain-of-function research. Unfortunately, the undercurrent of the whole discussion is "who is to blame", not "how to prevent this again". (Also, I think this is one of the reasons they tried to downplay the outbreak in the beginning.)
- _-david-_ 5y ago
  >Because if China were found "culpable", there is no way they could pay compensation for the trillions of economic damage and all the lifes lost. Not even the geopolitical oppenents of China are willing to go there. I mean we could just take it out of the debt we owe to China. China owns over $1 trillion in US debt. It wouldn't cover all the expenses the US had due to this pandemic but it would help. I would agree that almost nobody on the US would actually advocate for it. > Unfortunately, the undercurrent of the whole discussion is "who is to blame", not "how to prevent this again". You have to know how it started and who is to blame in order to put in safe guard against it in the future.
- PicassoCTs 5y ago
  Accountability does not necessary mean monetary damages and compensation. It would be good enough, if there was a government internal reform, that actually resulted in reliable, "in-control" government, instead of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village "strong government" facade that is obviously in effect right now. Nobody would have trouble entrusting bio-research to Taiwan or South Korea.

avs733 5y ago

pushing a view point isn't accountability. it is the opposite of accountability. you say face before scientific truth but the people pushing this theory are not focused on scientific truth anymore than you think China is.

Florin_Andrei 5y ago
You don't get it. They absolutely need accountability produced somehow, even out of thin air if need be.
- avs733 5y ago
  watching these conversations, I see this as the most fundamental comment as to what is going on.

captainmuon 5y ago

The idea of accountability is the thing that is holding back the investigation. Because if China were found "culpable", there is no way they could pay compensation for the trillions of economic damage and all the lifes lost. Not even the geopolitical oppenents of China are willing to go there. What we need is to prevent further such incidents in the future. So if the question of accountability is off the table, lets just think about what the consequence would be if the virus was an accidential lab escape (from any country). We should immediately take measures such that that never happens again. That means increasing the safety measures and transparency, and possibly banning gain-of-function research. Unfortunately, the undercurrent of the whole discussion is "who is to blame", not "how to prevent this again". (Also, I think this is one of the reasons they tried to downplay the outbreak in the beginning.)

_-david-_ 5y ago
>Because if China were found "culpable", there is no way they could pay compensation for the trillions of economic damage and all the lifes lost. Not even the geopolitical oppenents of China are willing to go there. I mean we could just take it out of the debt we owe to China. China owns over $1 trillion in US debt. It wouldn't cover all the expenses the US had due to this pandemic but it would help. I would agree that almost nobody on the US would actually advocate for it. > Unfortunately, the undercurrent of the whole discussion is "who is to blame", not "how to prevent this again". You have to know how it started and who is to blame in order to put in safe guard against it in the future.
PicassoCTs 5y ago
Accountability does not necessary mean monetary damages and compensation. It would be good enough, if there was a government internal reform, that actually resulted in reliable, "in-control" government, instead of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village "strong government" facade that is obviously in effect right now. Nobody would have trouble entrusting bio-research to Taiwan or South Korea.