5 ms·

Generally speaking, macOS uses option or shift to modify existing commands. Hence cmd-c / cmd-(opt)-v. The paradigm is Copy -> Move or Duplicate. In Windows,

Generally speaking, macOS uses option or shift to modify existing commands. Hence cmd-c / cmd-(opt)-v. The paradigm is Copy -> Move or Duplicate. In Windows, it's Copy or Cut -> Paste. I don't mind this change from Windows. Actually, I slightly prefer the Mac version, because I can change my mind on what operation I want to do. Windows front loads the choice, and I have to do it again if I decide I don't want to copy or cut anymore. As for folder nav/manipulation, I find Finder to make much greater sense, whereas Explorer was just, this makes sense because it's always been this way (don't get me wrong, Finder has its shortcomings in other areas, although File Preview [space bar] is pretty awesome). Finder: Generally speaking, arrows do everything. * Movement within folder: up/down arrow keys * Move out or into a directory / into a file or app AKA open it: cmd up/down * Expand/contract a folder: left/right arrow keys * Rename a file/folder: Enter Explorer: * Movement within a folder: up/down arrow keys * Move into a directory / open a file: Enter * Move out of a directory: alt up * Expand/contract a folder: left/right * Rename a file / folder: F2

tsimionescu 5y ago
> In Windows, it's Copy or Cut -> Paste. I don't mind this change from Windows. Actually, I slightly prefer the Mac version, because I can change my mind on what operation I want to do. Windows front loads the choice, and I have to do it again if I decide I don't want to copy or cut anymore. That's not just Windows, it is the way the copy/paste model works absolutely everywhere outside Mac's Finder. And there is a clear reason why it makes sense, and why the Finder way is just bad UX: the decision about what happens in location X should always be done when you are in location X. So, if you navigate into a folder and select a file that you want somewhere else, you are currently in the best position to decide whether you want the file to stay here as well (copy) or no (cut). Then, you can go somewhere else and just add the file in that location (paste). Furthermore, on Windows you can paste the file to several places, with predictable semantics: the file will be copied to each of those places (though performance of this operation may be suprising). I can't even begin to imagine on Mac if you copy a file the Cmd+opt+v it to multiple places. Does it move it around, deleting it from the previous place where you pressed cmd-opt-v??? Edit: I was entirely wrong about the part about copying to multiple places, which does undermine my point considerably.
- moogleii 5y ago
  > That's not just Windows, it is the way the copy/paste model works absolutely everywhere outside Mac's Finder. And there is a clear reason why it makes sense, and why the Finder way is just bad UX: the decision about what happens in location X should always be done when you are in location X. Hmm, the first part isn't convincing. To me that sounds like "everyone else is doing it" and not much different than arguing between left side vs right side driving, when there could be a third way, like teleportation. Not saying Finder is quite that much of a shift, but Finder's method does have semantical differences, and not just "hey we're cmd+n/m for cut/copy". As for the second part, I think that's an intriguing argument, but "bad UX" seems like a stretch. If it were truly always decided in location X, would you have to return to location X to cancel your copy/cut? No, because that would be far too strict. It also depends on what your mental model is of what has been decided at location X. On macOS: I have decided I want to manipulate the data in this file at location X. I can decide to copy or move it later at location Y. On Windows: I have decided I want to cut XOR copy this file at location X. I can decide location Y later. I personally like the ability to chain my decisions after. Based on your edit, I guess you've already discovered, but yes on macOS, you can issue a copy command once, then duplicate it and/or move it as many times as you want, to multiple places, even if you choose a move command first. Only location X's copy is altered if doing a move. I'm not even sure if that would be possible on Windows without going back and forth between location X and Y to switch between copy and cut (my wintel machine is down at the moment).
com2kid 5y ago
> * Move out or into a directory / into a file or app AKA open it: cmd up/down 3 years of using a Mac now, I would never have figured this out on my own. IMHO stupid to put the most common operation on a file behind a meta key. The ratio of how often I rename a file (rarely) vs use a file (often) doesn't come out in favor of this choice. That said I realize the decision was probably made long long ago and now Apple is just stuck with it. Still though. Maybe after another few years I'll figure out the hot key to change between the side pane and the main file list. (yes I could just look it up, but I do most of my work in terminal and I try to avoid Finder as much as I can, I really dislike using it)

tsimionescu 5y ago

> In Windows, it's Copy or Cut -> Paste. I don't mind this change from Windows. Actually, I slightly prefer the Mac version, because I can change my mind on what operation I want to do. Windows front loads the choice, and I have to do it again if I decide I don't want to copy or cut anymore. That's not just Windows, it is the way the copy/paste model works absolutely everywhere outside Mac's Finder. And there is a clear reason why it makes sense, and why the Finder way is just bad UX: the decision about what happens in location X should always be done when you are in location X. So, if you navigate into a folder and select a file that you want somewhere else, you are currently in the best position to decide whether you want the file to stay here as well (copy) or no (cut). Then, you can go somewhere else and just add the file in that location (paste). Furthermore, on Windows you can paste the file to several places, with predictable semantics: the file will be copied to each of those places (though performance of this operation may be suprising). I can't even begin to imagine on Mac if you copy a file the Cmd+opt+v it to multiple places. Does it move it around, deleting it from the previous place where you pressed cmd-opt-v??? Edit: I was entirely wrong about the part about copying to multiple places, which does undermine my point considerably.

moogleii 5y ago
> That's not just Windows, it is the way the copy/paste model works absolutely everywhere outside Mac's Finder. And there is a clear reason why it makes sense, and why the Finder way is just bad UX: the decision about what happens in location X should always be done when you are in location X. Hmm, the first part isn't convincing. To me that sounds like "everyone else is doing it" and not much different than arguing between left side vs right side driving, when there could be a third way, like teleportation. Not saying Finder is quite that much of a shift, but Finder's method does have semantical differences, and not just "hey we're cmd+n/m for cut/copy". As for the second part, I think that's an intriguing argument, but "bad UX" seems like a stretch. If it were truly always decided in location X, would you have to return to location X to cancel your copy/cut? No, because that would be far too strict. It also depends on what your mental model is of what has been decided at location X. On macOS: I have decided I want to manipulate the data in this file at location X. I can decide to copy or move it later at location Y. On Windows: I have decided I want to cut XOR copy this file at location X. I can decide location Y later. I personally like the ability to chain my decisions after. Based on your edit, I guess you've already discovered, but yes on macOS, you can issue a copy command once, then duplicate it and/or move it as many times as you want, to multiple places, even if you choose a move command first. Only location X's copy is altered if doing a move. I'm not even sure if that would be possible on Windows without going back and forth between location X and Y to switch between copy and cut (my wintel machine is down at the moment).

com2kid 5y ago

> * Move out or into a directory / into a file or app AKA open it: cmd up/down 3 years of using a Mac now, I would never have figured this out on my own. IMHO stupid to put the most common operation on a file behind a meta key. The ratio of how often I rename a file (rarely) vs use a file (often) doesn't come out in favor of this choice. That said I realize the decision was probably made long long ago and now Apple is just stuck with it. Still though. Maybe after another few years I'll figure out the hot key to change between the side pane and the main file list. (yes I could just look it up, but I do most of my work in terminal and I try to avoid Finder as much as I can, I really dislike using it)