5 ms·

> There's no easy way to cut a file/folder (Cmd-x doesn't work) You don't need cut for files, you either want to duplicate the file or move it. For moving you

by dsego 5y ago

> There's no easy way to cut a file/folder (Cmd-x doesn't work) You don't need cut for files, you either want to duplicate the file or move it. For moving you copy it (cmd-c) and then move with cmd-opt-v. Cut doesn't really make sense for files. With text you cut out the text into a clipboard. Where does the file go when you cut it? Nowhere. There is no place where you can see that you had already cut a file but it's waiting for you to make a mistake and move it somewhere by accident. Mac has a better duplicate/move UX paradigm and more appropriate for files & folders.

throwaddzuzxd 5y ago
How does one discover Cmd-Opt-V? Even with a right click after copying a file, there's no "Move" option. Your explanation makes sense but doesn't really seem supported with Finder's UX since the "Move" terminology doesn't exist anywhere
- dsego 5y ago
  Usually the option key uncovers more available options in context menus. > How does one discover Cmd-Opt-V? Keyboard shortcuts are not usually meant to be "discovered" (how do you discover ctrl+x?). You can learn and memorize them. Although, there is a common theme with the option/alt modifier on the mac.
  - jlund-molfese 5y ago
    Microsoft Word is an example of software which allows keyboard shortcut discovery pretty well [1] [1] https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/keyboard-shortcuts-in-word-95ef89dd-7142-4b50-afb2-f762f663ceb2#bkmk_ribbonwin https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/keyboard-shortcuts...
    - dsego 5y ago
      > Press the Alt key to display the ribbon shortcuts Seems pretty similar to apple, you have to know that pressing Alt shows additional information.
  - amatecha 5y ago
    They are indeed meant to be discovered -- they are usually listed on menu items. You can hold down modifier keys like Option, Command, Ctrl and Shift to see how the menu item's text actually changes to reflect the action that will be taken if you press the respective key command. Very discoverable. I've never seen any other OS that does this (not that I look for it specifically). Also note when ellipses at the end of a menu item disappears when you are holding Option or whatever -- this means the action will be taken immediately, instead of asking the user to confirm (quick example is on "Empty Trash" in the Finder menu).
  - throwaddzuzxd 5y ago
    > Keyboard shortcuts are not usually meant to be "discovered" (how do you discover ctrl+x?). Of course they are, don't be silly. Even in Finder, the "Édition" menu (I don't know how it's called in english) lists the keyboard shortcuts next to their names (copy, paste...). When you don't select anything, it even shows "Cut (Cmd+X)" grayed out! It just disappears when yous elect a file/folder
aoeusnth1 5y ago
It’s another UX paradigm I have to remember (and usually don’t) instead of using the standard one which is second nature to me.
- dsego 5y ago
  Nobody is forcing you to use macs. Doesn't make the mac any less intuitive if it doesn't follow what alternative operating systems are doing.
  - tsimionescu 5y ago
    It does make it less intuitive if it is hiding common interactions behind keyboard shortcuts (cmd+up instead of an Up button) or if it is inconsistent with common paradigms (different shortcuts for copy vs cut + single shortcut to paste is universal outside finder, which uses an entirely different paradigm).
    - arm 5y ago
      > It does make it less intuitive if it is hiding common interactions behind keyboard shortcuts (cmd+up instead of an Up button) Navigating to the parent folder isn’t exclusive to a keyboard shortcut (⌘↑). It’s also accessible from the menu bar (Go → Enclosing Folder).
    - amatecha 5y ago
      It's not hidden at all - it's actually a very easily-discoverable menu item under the "Go" menu. In regards to consistency, though I know this isn't exactly what you meant, I just booted a virtual machine with System 6 (released in 1988) and Command-Up was the same key command to open the parent folder. :)
  - akra 5y ago
    Actually some companies do. You want Linux since the software you are writing typically leverages a Linux environment, but the company doesn't want to support Linux so gives you a Mac machine instead. Its a poor substitute for the real thing IMO on a number of fronts at least for me. While it still works some of the time I would prefer a different environment and enjoy things like better Docker performance, avoid compile time differences between ARM and x64, odd differences in Terminal command behavior, etc, etc.

by dsego 5y ago

throwaddzuzxd 5y ago

How does one discover Cmd-Opt-V? Even with a right click after copying a file, there's no "Move" option. Your explanation makes sense but doesn't really seem supported with Finder's UX since the "Move" terminology doesn't exist anywhere

dsego 5y ago
Usually the option key uncovers more available options in context menus. > How does one discover Cmd-Opt-V? Keyboard shortcuts are not usually meant to be "discovered" (how do you discover ctrl+x?). You can learn and memorize them. Although, there is a common theme with the option/alt modifier on the mac.
- jlund-molfese 5y ago
  Microsoft Word is an example of software which allows keyboard shortcut discovery pretty well [1] [1] https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/keyboard-shortcuts-in-word-95ef89dd-7142-4b50-afb2-f762f663ceb2#bkmk_ribbonwin https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/keyboard-shortcuts...
  - dsego 5y ago
    > Press the Alt key to display the ribbon shortcuts Seems pretty similar to apple, you have to know that pressing Alt shows additional information.
- amatecha 5y ago
  They are indeed meant to be discovered -- they are usually listed on menu items. You can hold down modifier keys like Option, Command, Ctrl and Shift to see how the menu item's text actually changes to reflect the action that will be taken if you press the respective key command. Very discoverable. I've never seen any other OS that does this (not that I look for it specifically). Also note when ellipses at the end of a menu item disappears when you are holding Option or whatever -- this means the action will be taken immediately, instead of asking the user to confirm (quick example is on "Empty Trash" in the Finder menu).
- throwaddzuzxd 5y ago
  > Keyboard shortcuts are not usually meant to be "discovered" (how do you discover ctrl+x?). Of course they are, don't be silly. Even in Finder, the "Édition" menu (I don't know how it's called in english) lists the keyboard shortcuts next to their names (copy, paste...). When you don't select anything, it even shows "Cut (Cmd+X)" grayed out! It just disappears when yous elect a file/folder

aoeusnth1 5y ago

It’s another UX paradigm I have to remember (and usually don’t) instead of using the standard one which is second nature to me.

dsego 5y ago
Nobody is forcing you to use macs. Doesn't make the mac any less intuitive if it doesn't follow what alternative operating systems are doing.
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  It does make it less intuitive if it is hiding common interactions behind keyboard shortcuts (cmd+up instead of an Up button) or if it is inconsistent with common paradigms (different shortcuts for copy vs cut + single shortcut to paste is universal outside finder, which uses an entirely different paradigm).
  - arm 5y ago
    > It does make it less intuitive if it is hiding common interactions behind keyboard shortcuts (cmd+up instead of an Up button) Navigating to the parent folder isn’t exclusive to a keyboard shortcut (⌘↑). It’s also accessible from the menu bar (Go → Enclosing Folder).
  - amatecha 5y ago
    It's not hidden at all - it's actually a very easily-discoverable menu item under the "Go" menu. In regards to consistency, though I know this isn't exactly what you meant, I just booted a virtual machine with System 6 (released in 1988) and Command-Up was the same key command to open the parent folder. :)
- akra 5y ago
  Actually some companies do. You want Linux since the software you are writing typically leverages a Linux environment, but the company doesn't want to support Linux so gives you a Mac machine instead. Its a poor substitute for the real thing IMO on a number of fronts at least for me. While it still works some of the time I would prefer a different environment and enjoy things like better Docker performance, avoid compile time differences between ARM and x64, odd differences in Terminal command behavior, etc, etc.