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This is a lot of FUD. Yes, Apple devices do collect some data and phone it home (mostly diagnostic, and iCloud, both of which can be turned off). However, unlik

This is a lot of FUD. Yes, Apple devices do collect some data and phone it home (mostly diagnostic, and iCloud, both of which can be turned off). However, unlike their competitors, Apple does not sell this data to advertisers. And they are just as likely to refuse to work with law enforcement as they are likely to cooperate. How many times has LE demanded that Apple break the encryption on the iPhone of a crime suspect? How many times has LE demanded that Apple install backdoors and hand them the keys, only to be told to screw off? Yes, Windows and Android devices give users more control. But that is because their business models are totally different. We all know that Google is primarily an ad-tech company, and that Android is how they collect the data for those ads. And while a technically savvy person may be able to lock down their devices, that's just a minority of users we're talking about. Apple's data collection is a murmur compared to the deafening screech of that of Google.

ActorNightly 5y ago
Not spreading FUD, just pointing out inconsistency. "Yes, Apple devices do collect some data" should be the end of that sentence. Any data that is collected on the device and sent to apple is not private. It doesn't matter if Apple doesn't share it with other advertisers. Apple does advertising itself. There is no difference between it an a 3d party advertiser in terms of data they have access to. Once you get past that point and accept that there is no privacy, then its just a matter of how much you trust companies with your data. If you wanna claim that you trust Apple with your data, that is your own personal choice. As far as what Apple does or doesn't with that data, it's laughable that the argument for privacy is them refusing to unlock a phone. Security isn't determined by what computers/users/companies do or don't do, its determined by what is possible. And when it comes to data, its very possible, as proven by real life events, for them to turn over your data to law enforcement. Again, whether or not you care, thats a personal choice. But saying that Apple cares about privacy is just dead wrong, you have either ironically fallen victim to the Apple adverting about privacy, or you have an intrinsic bias towards Apple because you like their products which leads you to discount basic facts.
- threeseed 5y ago
  > Any data that is collected on the device and sent to apple is not private Please providence evidence of this claim and specify which data is not private. Apple uses differential privacy and removes PII which has been documented in the iOS Security Guide.
  - ActorNightly 5y ago
    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208650 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208650 >Apple uses differential privacy and removes PII which has been documented in the iOS Security Guide. Apple also said your iCloud photos are secure, and then look what happened in 2014.
- enraged_camel 5y ago
  You sound like some sort of privacy purist, and your stance with regards to privacy is extremist. It is not a stance shared by most people, and I think you know that already. Indeed, most people understand that their iPhones collecting anonymized diagnostic data and sending it to Apple is not some gross violation of privacy, and that it sure as shit doesn't mean Apple does not care about privacy. If that's the hill you want to die on, that's your call, but you should perhaps realize that blaming me of bias towards Apple is not the winning argument you think it is.
oceanplexian 5y ago
Apple could start selling ads tomorrow and simply change the terms of service, which they have a right to. In that case the last N years of data they have been collecting on you is fair game to sell to third parties. Is Google a worse example, sure. But plenty of us have been around long enough to remember when Google was restructured into Alphabet and the “Don’t be evil” motto was wiped from their corporate code of conduct. All it takes is a new CEO or a change of leadership and all of these corporate platitudes aren’t worth the paper they are printed on.
- selectodude 5y ago
  But the key thing is that with Apple, you're generally the customer. I pay a huge amount of money for an iPhone and Apple wants me to pay a huge amount of money for another iPhone in the future. Google develops Android for free and as such, I, the consumer, am not Google's customer. It's simply a different business model. Apple could change their approach and in response I can change mine. Google could also set up a method for me to purchase Android.
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    I paid a lot for cable TV and they still showed me ads despite being the customer. I also pay a lot for my internet connection as a customer, but guess what my ISP's privacy policy allows them to do? Share my data. Like any other profit driven company, Apple is incentivized to generate revenue from their customers' data and to advertise to them.
    - threeseed 5y ago
      > Apple is incentivized to generate revenue from their customers' data and to advertise to them. Apple is equally incentivised not to generate revenue in this way since they would lose hardware sales.
lern_too_spel 5y ago
Apple handed the keys to the castle to the Chinese government. Google collects data from iPhones as well as Android devices (including non-Google Android devices like Amazon's and Huawei's). The difference is that on Android, you can turn off any data collection you don't like. On iOS, if you want to install an app, you have to tell Apple. If you want to get your location, you have to tell Apple. If you want to build an app for your own device, you have to tell Apple a lot of things about yourself.

ActorNightly 5y ago

Not spreading FUD, just pointing out inconsistency. "Yes, Apple devices do collect some data" should be the end of that sentence. Any data that is collected on the device and sent to apple is not private. It doesn't matter if Apple doesn't share it with other advertisers. Apple does advertising itself. There is no difference between it an a 3d party advertiser in terms of data they have access to. Once you get past that point and accept that there is no privacy, then its just a matter of how much you trust companies with your data. If you wanna claim that you trust Apple with your data, that is your own personal choice. As far as what Apple does or doesn't with that data, it's laughable that the argument for privacy is them refusing to unlock a phone. Security isn't determined by what computers/users/companies do or don't do, its determined by what is possible. And when it comes to data, its very possible, as proven by real life events, for them to turn over your data to law enforcement. Again, whether or not you care, thats a personal choice. But saying that Apple cares about privacy is just dead wrong, you have either ironically fallen victim to the Apple adverting about privacy, or you have an intrinsic bias towards Apple because you like their products which leads you to discount basic facts.

threeseed 5y ago
> Any data that is collected on the device and sent to apple is not private Please providence evidence of this claim and specify which data is not private. Apple uses differential privacy and removes PII which has been documented in the iOS Security Guide.
- ActorNightly 5y ago
  https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208650 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208650 >Apple uses differential privacy and removes PII which has been documented in the iOS Security Guide. Apple also said your iCloud photos are secure, and then look what happened in 2014.
enraged_camel 5y ago
You sound like some sort of privacy purist, and your stance with regards to privacy is extremist. It is not a stance shared by most people, and I think you know that already. Indeed, most people understand that their iPhones collecting anonymized diagnostic data and sending it to Apple is not some gross violation of privacy, and that it sure as shit doesn't mean Apple does not care about privacy. If that's the hill you want to die on, that's your call, but you should perhaps realize that blaming me of bias towards Apple is not the winning argument you think it is.

oceanplexian 5y ago

Apple could start selling ads tomorrow and simply change the terms of service, which they have a right to. In that case the last N years of data they have been collecting on you is fair game to sell to third parties. Is Google a worse example, sure. But plenty of us have been around long enough to remember when Google was restructured into Alphabet and the “Don’t be evil” motto was wiped from their corporate code of conduct. All it takes is a new CEO or a change of leadership and all of these corporate platitudes aren’t worth the paper they are printed on.

selectodude 5y ago
But the key thing is that with Apple, you're generally the customer. I pay a huge amount of money for an iPhone and Apple wants me to pay a huge amount of money for another iPhone in the future. Google develops Android for free and as such, I, the consumer, am not Google's customer. It's simply a different business model. Apple could change their approach and in response I can change mine. Google could also set up a method for me to purchase Android.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  I paid a lot for cable TV and they still showed me ads despite being the customer. I also pay a lot for my internet connection as a customer, but guess what my ISP's privacy policy allows them to do? Share my data. Like any other profit driven company, Apple is incentivized to generate revenue from their customers' data and to advertise to them.
  - threeseed 5y ago
    > Apple is incentivized to generate revenue from their customers' data and to advertise to them. Apple is equally incentivised not to generate revenue in this way since they would lose hardware sales.

lern_too_spel 5y ago

Apple handed the keys to the castle to the Chinese government. Google collects data from iPhones as well as Android devices (including non-Google Android devices like Amazon's and Huawei's). The difference is that on Android, you can turn off any data collection you don't like. On iOS, if you want to install an app, you have to tell Apple. If you want to get your location, you have to tell Apple. If you want to build an app for your own device, you have to tell Apple a lot of things about yourself.