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If a certain way of doing things which I am very much used to does not apply to a different environment, it does not mean the subject is not intuitive whether i

If a certain way of doing things which I am very much used to does not apply to a different environment, it does not mean the subject is not intuitive whether it's macOS, Windows, etc. To me, intuitiveness means how easy it is to operate the system correctly without prior training. Honestly, for a non-tech savvy, macOS and Windows both have many quirks and don't let me start with Linux distros (Fedora is my daily driver). We've had a lot of good progress so far but we need to do better. As an example, reading the comments here, one person likes the sorting on macOS and another one despises it! Apparently, the term "intuitive" has a different meaning to different people. If we want to measure it we at least need to be on the same page about what it even means?

rapsey 5y ago
What keeps me on macOS is keyboard shortcuts. Typing on windows or linux is so much more annoying.
- Steltek 5y ago
  GP's point is that things like favorable shortcuts are due to your personal background. For myself, I was forced on to Mac and the shortcuts are excruciatingly frustrating to use. It feels like I've forgotten how to use a computer sometimes! I prefer non-native apps and overlaid keymaps (in VScode, etc) as much as possible to escape from them.
- qq4 5y ago
  That's funny, I feel the opposite regarding OS X and Linux. Fwiw I have never used macOS, but I imagine it's very similar to OS X.
- tomtheelder 5y ago
  What shortcuts do you have in macOS and not in Windows/Linux?
- qubitcoder 5y ago
  Same here. This is one of the biggest selling points for macOS as a power user. I've used Windows and linux for years, and continue to do so on a daily basis. But on macOS, one can absolutely fly due to the consistent keyboard shortcuts. - Standard keyboard shortcuts across all apps: done - Standard Unix/bash shortcuts for moving the cursor/manipulating text: done But, to the OP's point, unless you invest the time to learn how they work in macOS, they'll largely remain hidden and unknown. When helping friends and colleagues transition to macOS, explaining how keyboard shortcuts work (and how powerful they are!) is the first thing I do--followed by the window/app paradigm, and then Finder. As far as discoverability, you can use Command+Shift+/ pretty much anywhere. That keyboard shortcut displays the Help menu for the current application, with the search box already focused. So, for example, in the Mail app, if you wanted to forward an email: Command+Shift+/. Start typing "forward" Then hover your mouse over the "Forward" result. You'll immediately see the location in the menu bar, along with the corresponding keyboard shortcut: ⇧⌘F (Shift+Command+F), in this case. And, of course, Command+; will open the Preferences for any application. Apple actually has fairly great documentation on standard keyboard shortcuts [0]. [0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201236 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201236
ghaff 5y ago
I've been using MacOS for the past 10 years after mostly using Windows for years before that. Now, I definitely can't really use Windows 10 easily for the rare times I use it. A lot of it is definitely what you use on a day-to-day basis.
abraxas 5y ago
> We've had a lot of good progress so far but we need to do better. Honestly on the desktop since the days of Windows XP I've only seen regress. I'd even argue that XP was a regress in terms of UI vis-a-vis Windows 95. The only thing that improved is hardware handling (IRQ conflicts resolution etc)
- timbit42 5y ago
  Windows 2000 was the peak.
Yaina 5y ago
Yeah, a lot of comments I see here essentially make 2021-comparisons to other operating systems. Being used to things on other systems get conflated with how intuitive it is.
SyzygistSix 5y ago
I started with Ubuntu as a complete newbie - no idea about what a hard drive or RAM was - and had no problems. And very few since. Using Mint since Daryna, I've had almost no issues. I even ran across someone using Peppermint who had no idea they were even using Linux and had no problem using their computer to do the everyday things. In my experience using Linux, especially the user friendly distros like Ubuntu, Mint, Peppermint, has been dead simple.

rapsey 5y ago

What keeps me on macOS is keyboard shortcuts. Typing on windows or linux is so much more annoying.

Steltek 5y ago
GP's point is that things like favorable shortcuts are due to your personal background. For myself, I was forced on to Mac and the shortcuts are excruciatingly frustrating to use. It feels like I've forgotten how to use a computer sometimes! I prefer non-native apps and overlaid keymaps (in VScode, etc) as much as possible to escape from them.
qq4 5y ago
That's funny, I feel the opposite regarding OS X and Linux. Fwiw I have never used macOS, but I imagine it's very similar to OS X.
tomtheelder 5y ago
What shortcuts do you have in macOS and not in Windows/Linux?
qubitcoder 5y ago
Same here. This is one of the biggest selling points for macOS as a power user. I've used Windows and linux for years, and continue to do so on a daily basis. But on macOS, one can absolutely fly due to the consistent keyboard shortcuts. - Standard keyboard shortcuts across all apps: done - Standard Unix/bash shortcuts for moving the cursor/manipulating text: done But, to the OP's point, unless you invest the time to learn how they work in macOS, they'll largely remain hidden and unknown. When helping friends and colleagues transition to macOS, explaining how keyboard shortcuts work (and how powerful they are!) is the first thing I do--followed by the window/app paradigm, and then Finder. As far as discoverability, you can use Command+Shift+/ pretty much anywhere. That keyboard shortcut displays the Help menu for the current application, with the search box already focused. So, for example, in the Mail app, if you wanted to forward an email: Command+Shift+/. Start typing "forward" Then hover your mouse over the "Forward" result. You'll immediately see the location in the menu bar, along with the corresponding keyboard shortcut: ⇧⌘F (Shift+Command+F), in this case. And, of course, Command+; will open the Preferences for any application. Apple actually has fairly great documentation on standard keyboard shortcuts [0]. [0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201236 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201236

ghaff 5y ago

I've been using MacOS for the past 10 years after mostly using Windows for years before that. Now, I definitely can't really use Windows 10 easily for the rare times I use it. A lot of it is definitely what you use on a day-to-day basis.

abraxas 5y ago

> We've had a lot of good progress so far but we need to do better. Honestly on the desktop since the days of Windows XP I've only seen regress. I'd even argue that XP was a regress in terms of UI vis-a-vis Windows 95. The only thing that improved is hardware handling (IRQ conflicts resolution etc)

timbit42 5y ago
Windows 2000 was the peak.

Yaina 5y ago

Yeah, a lot of comments I see here essentially make 2021-comparisons to other operating systems. Being used to things on other systems get conflated with how intuitive it is.

SyzygistSix 5y ago

I started with Ubuntu as a complete newbie - no idea about what a hard drive or RAM was - and had no problems. And very few since. Using Mint since Daryna, I've had almost no issues. I even ran across someone using Peppermint who had no idea they were even using Linux and had no problem using their computer to do the everyday things. In my experience using Linux, especially the user friendly distros like Ubuntu, Mint, Peppermint, has been dead simple.