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PG doesn’t want you to talk about failed YC startups. HN doesn’t want you to talk about failed HN systems. One of Amazon’s leadership principles used to be “v

PG doesn’t want you to talk about failed YC startups. HN doesn’t want you to talk about failed HN systems. One of Amazon’s leadership principles used to be “vocally self critical” but now it has been removed. I don’t know why this trend exists but it’s disturbing. “Please don’t talk about the bad stuff here” is the mantra of modern times. Heck, HN doesn’t even let you downvote or comment on YC job posts no matter how bad the company may be to work for. Then we come on here and talk about fake reviews and inflated ratings as if we aren’t part of the problem.

busterarm 5y ago
HN's unwillingness to engage in meta conversation combined with somewhat vague rules and equally vague enforcement (sorry dang, although I do think you and the team do a good job in general) has really driven me away from participating as much as I used to. Many conversations worth having aren't had and many conversations had aren't worth having. The environment has been very polarized along certain lines and unfortunately I think trends towards reinforcing very myopic worldviews held by people with very skewed perspectives of the world at large. Just for some examples, crybullying runs rampant on this platform lately and I increasingly do not want to associate with a community that is used to coordinate and amplify personal attacks. Then there's the frequent contempt for the poor that tends to come up any time someone mentions rent regulations and/or zoning.
kodah 5y ago
> PG doesn’t want you to talk about failed YC startups. We do though. I'm pretty sure the saga of Gab played out on this website in plaintext. Maybe that's not your definition of "failed" though? > HN doesn’t want you to talk about failed HN systems. Like that infamous no politics policy of 2016? That seems to get brought up every few months. It's worth mentioning changes to HN are very slow, and by design. Some changes are too fundamental to HN, which dang refers to as, "fucking with the firmware". > One of Amazon’s leadership principles used to be “vocally self critical” but now it has been removed. I'm honestly not sure how this is related. Anyway, I do think a lot of HN and ycombinator discussions happen but you end up having to be at the right place at the right time. By browsing other users comments I've discovered there's a lot of interesting threads I miss, which I was previously unaware of. Sometimes they don't spend that much time on the front page, or live on for days in /active.
- sombremesa 5y ago
  > I'm pretty sure the saga of Gab played out on this website in plaintext. The Gab website is still active and the company is alive...that does not count as failed in my book. I did a search for over 170 failed startups from YC (this is still a small sampling) and without exception, any post that talks about their failure (there's maybe 3...) invariably gets buried immediately and ends up dying with no comments. [0][1][2] Ever heard the saying twice is a coincidence and thrice is a pattern? Would love to see a counterexample with an actual shuttered startup. > Anyway, I do think a lot of HN and ycombinator discussions happen but you end up having to be at the right place at the right time. By browsing other users comments I've discovered there's a lot of interesting threads I miss, which I was previously unaware of. Sometimes they don't spend that much time on the front page, or live on for days in /active. That's a fair point. I can see how HN-specific threads would be more susceptible to getting caught in the anti-flamewar filter and dropping down in the rankings. However, I'm not optimistic any change will be made here. > I'm honestly not sure how this is related. It's related in the sense that there appears to be a trend against the idea of sincere self-assessment, and more disturbingly, a trend towards actively suppressing dissenting voices by any means necessary. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15959095 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15959095 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15316698 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15316698 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21030823 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21030823
  - kodah 5y ago
    > It's related in the sense that there appears to be a trend against the idea of sincere self-assessment, and more disturbingly, a trend towards actively suppressing dissenting voices by any means necessary Being able to email dang is a feature. If you want humility on display, search his comments or email him. The man, from my perspective, has no problem with metaphorically standing naked in a room. That doesn't mean he won't debate you, but he's fair and admits when there's an issue. Rephrased as, "HN doesn't take action on an issue as soon as I'd like" I would agree with, and that is by design. Their philosophy is contrary to move fast and break things. When dang does extend something, it is usually very thoughtful and intended. > The Gab website is still active and the company is alive...that does not count as failed in my book I would suspect that based on the crowd, failed startups aren't very interesting or curious. Most of us come from startups or FOSS. It's fairly well known why startups and projects typically fail, but I've seen some post mortems take off that subvert our usual expectations. Gab I would consider failed since they were kicked out of YC, it was very public, and much of the reasoning came from interactions on this board. Your implicit argument is that YC and by proxy HN are covering up their failures through automation, but that thread could've easily disappeared. I think there's a lot more reasonable explanations that precipitate your extraordinary claim.

busterarm 5y ago

HN's unwillingness to engage in meta conversation combined with somewhat vague rules and equally vague enforcement (sorry dang, although I do think you and the team do a good job in general) has really driven me away from participating as much as I used to. Many conversations worth having aren't had and many conversations had aren't worth having. The environment has been very polarized along certain lines and unfortunately I think trends towards reinforcing very myopic worldviews held by people with very skewed perspectives of the world at large. Just for some examples, crybullying runs rampant on this platform lately and I increasingly do not want to associate with a community that is used to coordinate and amplify personal attacks. Then there's the frequent contempt for the poor that tends to come up any time someone mentions rent regulations and/or zoning.

kodah 5y ago

> PG doesn’t want you to talk about failed YC startups. We do though. I'm pretty sure the saga of Gab played out on this website in plaintext. Maybe that's not your definition of "failed" though? > HN doesn’t want you to talk about failed HN systems. Like that infamous no politics policy of 2016? That seems to get brought up every few months. It's worth mentioning changes to HN are very slow, and by design. Some changes are too fundamental to HN, which dang refers to as, "fucking with the firmware". > One of Amazon’s leadership principles used to be “vocally self critical” but now it has been removed. I'm honestly not sure how this is related. Anyway, I do think a lot of HN and ycombinator discussions happen but you end up having to be at the right place at the right time. By browsing other users comments I've discovered there's a lot of interesting threads I miss, which I was previously unaware of. Sometimes they don't spend that much time on the front page, or live on for days in /active.

sombremesa 5y ago
> I'm pretty sure the saga of Gab played out on this website in plaintext. The Gab website is still active and the company is alive...that does not count as failed in my book. I did a search for over 170 failed startups from YC (this is still a small sampling) and without exception, any post that talks about their failure (there's maybe 3...) invariably gets buried immediately and ends up dying with no comments. [0][1][2] Ever heard the saying twice is a coincidence and thrice is a pattern? Would love to see a counterexample with an actual shuttered startup. > Anyway, I do think a lot of HN and ycombinator discussions happen but you end up having to be at the right place at the right time. By browsing other users comments I've discovered there's a lot of interesting threads I miss, which I was previously unaware of. Sometimes they don't spend that much time on the front page, or live on for days in /active. That's a fair point. I can see how HN-specific threads would be more susceptible to getting caught in the anti-flamewar filter and dropping down in the rankings. However, I'm not optimistic any change will be made here. > I'm honestly not sure how this is related. It's related in the sense that there appears to be a trend against the idea of sincere self-assessment, and more disturbingly, a trend towards actively suppressing dissenting voices by any means necessary. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15959095 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15959095 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15316698 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15316698 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21030823 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21030823
- kodah 5y ago
  > It's related in the sense that there appears to be a trend against the idea of sincere self-assessment, and more disturbingly, a trend towards actively suppressing dissenting voices by any means necessary Being able to email dang is a feature. If you want humility on display, search his comments or email him. The man, from my perspective, has no problem with metaphorically standing naked in a room. That doesn't mean he won't debate you, but he's fair and admits when there's an issue. Rephrased as, "HN doesn't take action on an issue as soon as I'd like" I would agree with, and that is by design. Their philosophy is contrary to move fast and break things. When dang does extend something, it is usually very thoughtful and intended. > The Gab website is still active and the company is alive...that does not count as failed in my book I would suspect that based on the crowd, failed startups aren't very interesting or curious. Most of us come from startups or FOSS. It's fairly well known why startups and projects typically fail, but I've seen some post mortems take off that subvert our usual expectations. Gab I would consider failed since they were kicked out of YC, it was very public, and much of the reasoning came from interactions on this board. Your implicit argument is that YC and by proxy HN are covering up their failures through automation, but that thread could've easily disappeared. I think there's a lot more reasonable explanations that precipitate your extraordinary claim.