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From the link: "Preliminary testing on iOS 14 seems to indicate that Apple has changed the kernel so that this trick no longer works." This is why the iPad nee

by easton 5y ago

From the link: "Preliminary testing on iOS 14 seems to indicate that Apple has changed the kernel so that this trick no longer works." This is why the iPad needs a way to disable SIP (and the additional security features) just like the Mac. I could give a heck about the iPhone, to be honest, there's maybe one time in my life being able to JIT Python or whatever would've been useful on my phone. But they advertise the iPad as a computer, and yet their software restrictions make it a portable TV.

wffurr 5y ago
Doh, somehow I managed to not read that despite (or because?) being in a big callout box near the top of the page.
wffurr 5y ago
Huh! They removed that hack in iOS 14 but added “extended virtual addressing entitlement” in iOS 14.2 that allows this for real! https://9to5mac.com/2020/11/06/ios-14-2-brings-jit-compilation-support-which-enables-emulation-apps-at-full-performance/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/11/06/ios-14-2-brings-jit-compilati...
- saagarjha 5y ago
  Extended virtual addressing is exactly what it sounds like: you get more virtual memory, not the ability to JIT. The technique mentioned in that blog post is no longer possible.
- mmebane 5y ago
  Unfortunately, the sideloaded-JIT support seems to have been an accident, as Apple killed it off in 14.4. https://twitter.com/altstoreio/status/1354096048650809349 https://twitter.com/altstoreio/status/1354096048650809349
handrous 5y ago
> But they advertise the iPad as a computer, and yet their software restrictions make it a portable TV. That's not at all true. It's not useful for some subset of what certain geeks want to use it for. It's very useful for all the other things a highly portable computer hooked up to a bunch of really cool sensors and a very capable peripherals ecosystem is. Ordinarily I'm all for arguments that we, as an industry (software developers, that is) are laughable failures, but I don't think we've failed so badly that computers are useless if you can't—for any reason, including personal inability or lack of interest—run (e.g.) Python on them.
- easton 5y ago
  I was speaking more generally than this specific issue, but things like not being able to mount file shares in a stable way (where the connection isn't dropped a bunch, although maybe that's a me issue and not a Files.app issue) are blockers to video editing with something like Premiere taking off on the iPad. No allowance of alternative browser engines means software like VSCode or Figma that rely on Electron would have to port bespoke versions to either entirely native apps or to Safari (which Microsoft has been doing with VSCode, but that's a lot of work for teams that chose to make their app an Electron app because it would save porting time). I'm more willing to excuse the second one because it has made it possible for a second browser engine that isn't built by Google, but it's still a factor. It's more of a death by a thousand cuts scenario at this point rather than major things being completely missing from iPadOS, which is why it's painful to watch as they sell extremely powerful hardware that could be used for something cool if not for the darned restrictions.
- nicolapcweek94 5y ago
  Besides, I don't get the whole "can't do geek things on an iPad". I have an iPad Pro 2017 and I've: - Run full linux on it (both emulated X86 and via WASM magic, via A-Shell and iSH, both on the App Store) - Coded Python, C#, Javascript and Lua on it (via Pythonista, Continuous, Scriptable and Codea) _and_ ran the code on the iPad itself - Wrote blog posts for my old static site and pushed them to a git repo to publish them (via iA Writer for writing and Working Copy for Git) - Connected via SSH and RDP to "real computers" (via the Remote Desktop app and Blink!, though there's many SSH clients on the AS) - Used SFTP to transfer files to/from said computers/servers (via Secure Shellfish) There's also an entire class of apps built upon the Shortcuts model, that allows you to extend and improve upon the Shortcuts (née Workflow, third party now first party) "coding model", which is very powerful and heavily integrated with the device and Apple services - though very different from "traditional" coding. Is it a limited platform? Yes, absolutely. Is it a general purpose computer? Yes, most definitely. Can you do "geeky things" on it? Well, I've been doing them for years. Can you run a full UNIX-like dev environment on it? Well, yes, with tricks. But why would you want to, when there's plenty of options that do it 1) natively 2) better? Use an iPad for what its purpose is, not for what a Mac's purpose is.

by easton 5y ago

wffurr 5y ago

Doh, somehow I managed to not read that despite (or because?) being in a big callout box near the top of the page.

wffurr 5y ago

Huh! They removed that hack in iOS 14 but added “extended virtual addressing entitlement” in iOS 14.2 that allows this for real! https://9to5mac.com/2020/11/06/ios-14-2-brings-jit-compilation-support-which-enables-emulation-apps-at-full-performance/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/11/06/ios-14-2-brings-jit-compilati...

saagarjha 5y ago
Extended virtual addressing is exactly what it sounds like: you get more virtual memory, not the ability to JIT. The technique mentioned in that blog post is no longer possible.
mmebane 5y ago
Unfortunately, the sideloaded-JIT support seems to have been an accident, as Apple killed it off in 14.4. https://twitter.com/altstoreio/status/1354096048650809349 https://twitter.com/altstoreio/status/1354096048650809349

handrous 5y ago

> But they advertise the iPad as a computer, and yet their software restrictions make it a portable TV. That's not at all true. It's not useful for some subset of what certain geeks want to use it for. It's very useful for all the other things a highly portable computer hooked up to a bunch of really cool sensors and a very capable peripherals ecosystem is. Ordinarily I'm all for arguments that we, as an industry (software developers, that is) are laughable failures, but I don't think we've failed so badly that computers are useless if you can't—for any reason, including personal inability or lack of interest—run (e.g.) Python on them.

easton 5y ago
I was speaking more generally than this specific issue, but things like not being able to mount file shares in a stable way (where the connection isn't dropped a bunch, although maybe that's a me issue and not a Files.app issue) are blockers to video editing with something like Premiere taking off on the iPad. No allowance of alternative browser engines means software like VSCode or Figma that rely on Electron would have to port bespoke versions to either entirely native apps or to Safari (which Microsoft has been doing with VSCode, but that's a lot of work for teams that chose to make their app an Electron app because it would save porting time). I'm more willing to excuse the second one because it has made it possible for a second browser engine that isn't built by Google, but it's still a factor. It's more of a death by a thousand cuts scenario at this point rather than major things being completely missing from iPadOS, which is why it's painful to watch as they sell extremely powerful hardware that could be used for something cool if not for the darned restrictions.
nicolapcweek94 5y ago
Besides, I don't get the whole "can't do geek things on an iPad". I have an iPad Pro 2017 and I've: - Run full linux on it (both emulated X86 and via WASM magic, via A-Shell and iSH, both on the App Store) - Coded Python, C#, Javascript and Lua on it (via Pythonista, Continuous, Scriptable and Codea) _and_ ran the code on the iPad itself - Wrote blog posts for my old static site and pushed them to a git repo to publish them (via iA Writer for writing and Working Copy for Git) - Connected via SSH and RDP to "real computers" (via the Remote Desktop app and Blink!, though there's many SSH clients on the AS) - Used SFTP to transfer files to/from said computers/servers (via Secure Shellfish) There's also an entire class of apps built upon the Shortcuts model, that allows you to extend and improve upon the Shortcuts (née Workflow, third party now first party) "coding model", which is very powerful and heavily integrated with the device and Apple services - though very different from "traditional" coding. Is it a limited platform? Yes, absolutely. Is it a general purpose computer? Yes, most definitely. Can you do "geeky things" on it? Well, I've been doing them for years. Can you run a full UNIX-like dev environment on it? Well, yes, with tricks. But why would you want to, when there's plenty of options that do it 1) natively 2) better? Use an iPad for what its purpose is, not for what a Mac's purpose is.