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The Write XOR Execute restriction discussed in the article is a security feature, and it’s greatly beneficial from a security standpoint. > Until I can run a p

The Write XOR Execute restriction discussed in the article is a security feature, and it’s greatly beneficial from a security standpoint. > Until I can run a proper version of Firefox on iPad FireFox for iOS works just fine. The Gecko vs WebKit difference doesn’t really matter in practice. If you want general purpose computing, just get a Mac. You can run Firefox and any other program you’d like. It would be great if there was an opt-in developer mode on iOS that bypassed certain restrictions, but I also understand why Apple chose to go with security and simplicity as 99.9+% of their customers have no need nor desire to go beyond the security and platform restrictions. I have both an iPad Pro with keyboard case and a MacBook. Even if I could run whatever I wanted on the iPad, I’d still be reaching for the MacBook because it’s just a better physical platform for doing anything other than simple touchscreen and stylus work.

sp332 5y ago
Firefox on iOS is not Gecko. Like all other browsers on iOS, it is a skin on the OS-provided Webkit. This is because fast JS execution depends on operations that are illegal for apps to access.
- r00fus 5y ago
  So we're talking about the M1 Macs, not iPhones - Firefox on Mac is Gecko. So the comparison of Webkit (iOS FF) vs. Gecko (Mac FF) is the comparison being made as you can download both if you want.
  - sp332 5y ago
    W^X JIT seems to have been solved in Firefox in 2016. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=W-XOR-E-Firefox https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=W-XOR-E-... So that's not the specific blocker for Gecko on iOS.
    - Rhedox 5y ago
      W^X doesn't get you very far on iOS. Apps are not allowed to make pages executable at all.
wffurr 5y ago
There is an opt-in developer mode on iOS. You can compile and install any software you want on your own iPad; no paid Apple developer account needed. There’s even a way to get W^X memory regions on iOS by abusing ptrace: https://saagarjha.com/blog/2020/02/23/jailed-just-in-time-compilation-on-ios/ https://saagarjha.com/blog/2020/02/23/jailed-just-in-time-co... It can’t be submitted to the App Store or deployed with TestFlight, but you can build and install an app using that hack just fine on your own device. Open source browser vendors, like Firefox and Chromium, could provide builds that enable a full browser engine experience on iOS devices, were they to think it worth the effort.
- sneak 5y ago
  > There is an opt-in developer mode on iOS. You can compile and install any software you want on your own iPad; no paid Apple developer account needed. However, an Apple ID is needed, which requires an email and working phone number to get, along with additional EULA/terms acceptance. It's not really a mode, but an additional network service with its own terms and conditions.
- easton 5y ago
  From the link: "Preliminary testing on iOS 14 seems to indicate that Apple has changed the kernel so that this trick no longer works." This is why the iPad needs a way to disable SIP (and the additional security features) just like the Mac. I could give a heck about the iPhone, to be honest, there's maybe one time in my life being able to JIT Python or whatever would've been useful on my phone. But they advertise the iPad as a computer, and yet their software restrictions make it a portable TV.
  - wffurr 5y ago
    Doh, somehow I managed to not read that despite (or because?) being in a big callout box near the top of the page.
  - wffurr 5y ago
    Huh! They removed that hack in iOS 14 but added “extended virtual addressing entitlement” in iOS 14.2 that allows this for real! https://9to5mac.com/2020/11/06/ios-14-2-brings-jit-compilation-support-which-enables-emulation-apps-at-full-performance/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/11/06/ios-14-2-brings-jit-compilati...
wffurr 5y ago
Comparing my iPad Pro with keyboard folio and a 2014 11” MacBook Air, I agree that the MacBook has a much better trackpad-and-keyboard experience. I do wonder how the 12” iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard would compare. I haven’t used one yet, but I suspect it would be pretty good. The 12” display seems a little large for a tablet, though.
saagarjha 5y ago
It’s useful for security if you’re running arbitrary JavaScript you’ve downloaded from the internet. Its utility in sandboxing old games is (mostly) dubious.
lostgame 5y ago
>> FireFox for iOS works just fine. The Gecko vs WebKit difference doesn’t really matter in practice. Yeah; sorry - it really does - I vastly prefer Gecko’s rendering engine and notice it’s considerably speedier and more responsive on my MacBook Pro side by side to the newest Safari. The app even opens faster. Not only that, but I imagine there are a ton of web devs here in the comments who have a requirement testing on the actual FireFox, not some light skin on top of the existing WebKit engine with bookmark sync support. FireFox for iOS is the farthest thing from ‘FireFox’. It’s in name only.
pornel 5y ago
The engine difference does matter, because it prevents other vendors from making iOS a better platform for web apps. It's in Apple's interest to keep web apps an inferior experience to App Store apps: https://infrequently.org/2021/04/progress-delayed/ https://infrequently.org/2021/04/progress-delayed/

sp332 5y ago

Firefox on iOS is not Gecko. Like all other browsers on iOS, it is a skin on the OS-provided Webkit. This is because fast JS execution depends on operations that are illegal for apps to access.

r00fus 5y ago
So we're talking about the M1 Macs, not iPhones - Firefox on Mac is Gecko. So the comparison of Webkit (iOS FF) vs. Gecko (Mac FF) is the comparison being made as you can download both if you want.
- sp332 5y ago
  W^X JIT seems to have been solved in Firefox in 2016. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=W-XOR-E-Firefox https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=W-XOR-E-... So that's not the specific blocker for Gecko on iOS.
  - Rhedox 5y ago
    W^X doesn't get you very far on iOS. Apps are not allowed to make pages executable at all.

wffurr 5y ago

There is an opt-in developer mode on iOS. You can compile and install any software you want on your own iPad; no paid Apple developer account needed. There’s even a way to get W^X memory regions on iOS by abusing ptrace: https://saagarjha.com/blog/2020/02/23/jailed-just-in-time-compilation-on-ios/ https://saagarjha.com/blog/2020/02/23/jailed-just-in-time-co... It can’t be submitted to the App Store or deployed with TestFlight, but you can build and install an app using that hack just fine on your own device. Open source browser vendors, like Firefox and Chromium, could provide builds that enable a full browser engine experience on iOS devices, were they to think it worth the effort.

sneak 5y ago
> There is an opt-in developer mode on iOS. You can compile and install any software you want on your own iPad; no paid Apple developer account needed. However, an Apple ID is needed, which requires an email and working phone number to get, along with additional EULA/terms acceptance. It's not really a mode, but an additional network service with its own terms and conditions.
easton 5y ago
From the link: "Preliminary testing on iOS 14 seems to indicate that Apple has changed the kernel so that this trick no longer works." This is why the iPad needs a way to disable SIP (and the additional security features) just like the Mac. I could give a heck about the iPhone, to be honest, there's maybe one time in my life being able to JIT Python or whatever would've been useful on my phone. But they advertise the iPad as a computer, and yet their software restrictions make it a portable TV.
- wffurr 5y ago
  Doh, somehow I managed to not read that despite (or because?) being in a big callout box near the top of the page.
- wffurr 5y ago
  Huh! They removed that hack in iOS 14 but added “extended virtual addressing entitlement” in iOS 14.2 that allows this for real! https://9to5mac.com/2020/11/06/ios-14-2-brings-jit-compilation-support-which-enables-emulation-apps-at-full-performance/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/11/06/ios-14-2-brings-jit-compilati...

wffurr 5y ago

Comparing my iPad Pro with keyboard folio and a 2014 11” MacBook Air, I agree that the MacBook has a much better trackpad-and-keyboard experience. I do wonder how the 12” iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard would compare. I haven’t used one yet, but I suspect it would be pretty good. The 12” display seems a little large for a tablet, though.

saagarjha 5y ago

It’s useful for security if you’re running arbitrary JavaScript you’ve downloaded from the internet. Its utility in sandboxing old games is (mostly) dubious.

lostgame 5y ago

>> FireFox for iOS works just fine. The Gecko vs WebKit difference doesn’t really matter in practice. Yeah; sorry - it really does - I vastly prefer Gecko’s rendering engine and notice it’s considerably speedier and more responsive on my MacBook Pro side by side to the newest Safari. The app even opens faster. Not only that, but I imagine there are a ton of web devs here in the comments who have a requirement testing on the actual FireFox, not some light skin on top of the existing WebKit engine with bookmark sync support. FireFox for iOS is the farthest thing from ‘FireFox’. It’s in name only.

pornel 5y ago

The engine difference does matter, because it prevents other vendors from making iOS a better platform for web apps. It's in Apple's interest to keep web apps an inferior experience to App Store apps: https://infrequently.org/2021/04/progress-delayed/ https://infrequently.org/2021/04/progress-delayed/