4 ms·

> Syntax is not unfamiliar, just more Pascal like; how is that not unfamiliar

by jcelerier 5y ago

Rochus 5y ago
Well, why would you then consider Python to be familiar?
- oblio 5y ago
  Because Python is 100000x more popular than Pascal in 2021?
  - germandiago 5y ago
    You make a good point. I started my Computer Science and Engineering degree (I am european, not american, so the equivalent looks like kind of a merge of both areas) with Python, C and C++ on the programming side. Pascal was discarded a few years back in my university. And yes, by familiar I mean exactly what you mean: you see nowadays Java, Python, C++, C, C#, but Pascal is disappeared. Disappeared since long ago since I do not know even the syntax myself by casual reading around.
  - Rochus 5y ago
    Python syntax is more similar to Pascal than to e.g. Java or JS. "Modula-3 is the origin of the syntax and semantics used for exceptions, and some other Python features." (from https://docs.python.org/3/faq/general.html#why-was-python-created-in-the-first-place https://docs.python.org/3/faq/general.html#why-was-python-cr...). Also the predecessor languages ABC and SETL were in the Algol tradition. > Python is 100000x more popular than Pascal It's about factor 8 on https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ or factor 3 (in score) on https://spectrum.ieee.org/static/interactive-the-top-programming-languages-2020 https://spectrum.ieee.org/static/interactive-the-top-program..., whatever you prefer as a reference. Delphi (which is Object Pascal) is still a widely used language.
    - oblio 5y ago
      I generally go by job listings. It's trivial to find Python jobs, Pascal/Delphi jobs are very rare.
      - Rochus 5y ago
        Maybe you can post a link to a job site where there are 100000x more Python than Pascal/Delphi/Ada jobs. Btw. you can filter the IEEE ranking by jobs which seems to correspond well with what I see on monster or indeed. Anyway, the discussion was about whether the Lua or Pascal style syntax is unfamiliar or not.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- jcelerier 5y ago
  If coming from C++ I definitely wouldn't, especially the module system and reference binding in python is WEIRD. I'd say C, C#, maybe D and Java would fit ? My criterion would be "can a new grad student who only learned c++ be productive in a couple days"
  - Rochus 5y ago
    There may be a difference between your view and that of the majority of developers. My primary language is also C++, but languages of the Pascal family (to which Python is related) remain very popular.
coldtea 5y ago
In that it still refers to a hugely popular family of languages...
- jcelerier 5y ago
  Chinese is also a hugely popular language, does not mean that it is familiar to a large amount of humans
  - coldtea 5y ago
    The analogy breaks as Pascal knowledge is not confined to one geographical area or ethnicity. The same for languages inspired by Pascal syntax, with are tons. No matter how you slice it or dice it, Pascal and Pascal-like syntax are not some obscure niche languages...
    - solipsism 5y ago
      It's a subjective word. It's unfamiliar to people who are not familiar with Pascal. It's familiar to people who are familiar with Pascal. Jesus... Look at yourself, HN.
    - jcelerier 5y ago
      > The analogy breaks as Pascal knowledge is not confined to one geographical area or ethnicity. no, it is confined to people who learned Pascal ? I could start learning chinese with duolingo just as easily as I could start learning pascal with some web tutorial, it does not mean that either are familiar to me.

> Syntax is not unfamiliar, just more Pascal like; how is that not unfamiliar

Rochus 5y ago

Well, why would you then consider Python to be familiar?

oblio 5y ago
Because Python is 100000x more popular than Pascal in 2021?
- germandiago 5y ago
  You make a good point. I started my Computer Science and Engineering degree (I am european, not american, so the equivalent looks like kind of a merge of both areas) with Python, C and C++ on the programming side. Pascal was discarded a few years back in my university. And yes, by familiar I mean exactly what you mean: you see nowadays Java, Python, C++, C, C#, but Pascal is disappeared. Disappeared since long ago since I do not know even the syntax myself by casual reading around.
- Rochus 5y ago
  Python syntax is more similar to Pascal than to e.g. Java or JS. "Modula-3 is the origin of the syntax and semantics used for exceptions, and some other Python features." (from https://docs.python.org/3/faq/general.html#why-was-python-created-in-the-first-place https://docs.python.org/3/faq/general.html#why-was-python-cr...). Also the predecessor languages ABC and SETL were in the Algol tradition. > Python is 100000x more popular than Pascal It's about factor 8 on https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ or factor 3 (in score) on https://spectrum.ieee.org/static/interactive-the-top-programming-languages-2020 https://spectrum.ieee.org/static/interactive-the-top-program..., whatever you prefer as a reference. Delphi (which is Object Pascal) is still a widely used language.
  - oblio 5y ago
    I generally go by job listings. It's trivial to find Python jobs, Pascal/Delphi jobs are very rare.
    - Rochus 5y ago
      Maybe you can post a link to a job site where there are 100000x more Python than Pascal/Delphi/Ada jobs. Btw. you can filter the IEEE ranking by jobs which seems to correspond well with what I see on monster or indeed. Anyway, the discussion was about whether the Lua or Pascal style syntax is unfamiliar or not.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jcelerier 5y ago
If coming from C++ I definitely wouldn't, especially the module system and reference binding in python is WEIRD. I'd say C, C#, maybe D and Java would fit ? My criterion would be "can a new grad student who only learned c++ be productive in a couple days"
- Rochus 5y ago
  There may be a difference between your view and that of the majority of developers. My primary language is also C++, but languages of the Pascal family (to which Python is related) remain very popular.

coldtea 5y ago

In that it still refers to a hugely popular family of languages...

jcelerier 5y ago
Chinese is also a hugely popular language, does not mean that it is familiar to a large amount of humans
- coldtea 5y ago
  The analogy breaks as Pascal knowledge is not confined to one geographical area or ethnicity. The same for languages inspired by Pascal syntax, with are tons. No matter how you slice it or dice it, Pascal and Pascal-like syntax are not some obscure niche languages...
  - solipsism 5y ago
    It's a subjective word. It's unfamiliar to people who are not familiar with Pascal. It's familiar to people who are familiar with Pascal. Jesus... Look at yourself, HN.
  - jcelerier 5y ago
    > The analogy breaks as Pascal knowledge is not confined to one geographical area or ethnicity. no, it is confined to people who learned Pascal ? I could start learning chinese with duolingo just as easily as I could start learning pascal with some web tutorial, it does not mean that either are familiar to me.