6 ms·
O'Leary: Forced landing in Belarus was 'state-sponsored hijacking'
- kobiguru 5y agono It's not exhibit A: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/bolivian-presidents-plane-forced-to-land-in-austria-in-hunt-for-snowden/2013/07/03/c281c2f4-e3eb-11e2-a11e-c2ea876a8f30_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/bolivian-presidents-pla...
- quonn 5y agoI was immediately reminded of this incident as well. But just because it happened before does not make it right now. And Morales was not arrested so there is a difference. We don‘t know if Snowden would have been arrested or if in that case the plan would have landed. Assuming it wouldn‘t, would anyone really shoot it down, killing a foreign president? I cannot imagine, the repercussions would be enormous. edit: Additionally it seems nobody forced the plane to land in Vienna. Instead what happened was that France revoked the permission to fly over France. That‘s all. The pilot chose where to land and had various options and chose Vienna. Then nothing happened after the landing. It‘s not even close.
- andersson1337 5y agoYeah surely they just wanted to say hi.
- georgyo 5y agoFirst, your evidence of another incident of a government strong arming a plane to land and capture someone is not evidence that either are not an abuse of power. But even if we take as such, there are some major differences. 1. This was a journalist, not a government employee who stole classified information. 2. They claimed a bomb threat, and used a fighter jet to escort the plane down. There was no order to make this official, and as such was a hijacking. 3. The dictator president of Belarus has been arresting journalist and anyone else who may challenge him. Including anyone who runs against him in elections. Can't vote for people in jail/dead.
- vetinari 5y ago> This was a journalist, not a government employee who stole classified information. We don't know. Some repeat that, others say that he was an activist involved in the recent failed coup.
- ipaddr 5y agoI agree that what Belarus did was wrong on many levels. Just a reminder. Assange was journalist as well. Not exactly the same case but a debate could be had that the moral high ground was given away allowing for this to be seen as more acceptable.
- alkonaut 5y agoThat's not an exhibit of how this isn't state sponsored hijacking. That's a poor attempt at whataboutism, that has surfaced several times in ALL the threads on this topic. There are several reasons that wasn't even remotely comparable, and the most obvious one is that that was diplomacy (the US closing airspaces and thereby giving the plane no choice but to land). That kind of power is wielded by the US becuase it's a powerful global power AND because it has good diplimatic relations with the countries in question (France, Spain etc). The pilot in the linked incident had to request to land (And could have returned to the starting airport but chose the closest, perhaps hoping to continue). In the lukashenko incident, there were agents on board the plane. The emergency diversion wasn't to the nearest airport, but to the more distant Minsk. It's a hijacking. The bolivian case was not. No matter how shady the purposes were of the US trying to force the plane down, it doesn't chanhge that. They have every right to ASK their allies Spain and France to close their airspace for the Bolivian presidents' aircraft. Spain and France had every right to refuse (Of course knowing that their diplomatic relations with the US could take a hit). Stop making this silly comparison please.
- throwaway21_ 5y agoDon't be silly - Belarus is a sovereign state, they control their airspace and they had every right to land that plane down. Assange made US looked stupid in that incident while Lukashenko made Protasevich looked stupid yesterday. btw nobody sane is believing that US wouldn't force to land plane flying over US with Snowden in it - but Snowden isn't that stupid I guess.
- KeNE3zuF 5y agoThis is about might, not right. Both the US and Belarusian governments are obviously able and willing to kidnap people, that doesn't mean they have that right. Sovereignty is likewise about might and not right. They are sovereign because they can do things like this. Anyone who can reliably do things like this in given area is sovereign, but that doesn't mean that anyone has the right to do things like this. Might does not make right.
- 5y ago
- KeNE3zuF 5y agoI don't understand what you are trying to convey? Are you saying that state-sponsored hijacking can only happen once, so the fact that is has happens before is evidence it cannot have happened now?
- toyg 5y agoAs much as I agree with the equivalence, the answer really is that Snowden's abduction would also have been a shameful state-sponsored hijacking.
- ryanlol 5y agoNot really, that plane was forced to land by not allowing it enter certain airspace. Very different from having fighter jets intercept and force a plane to land. Shameful? Maybe. Hijacking? No.
- snypher 5y agoThis case is the dictionary definition of hijacking. An act of unlawfully seizing an aircraft, vehicle, or ship while in transit.
- ryanlol 5y agoYeah, this case is. The Morales case wasn’t.
- igammarays 5y agoA slight diplomatic difference in tactics to achieve the same effect. I'm sure they would've ratcheted up the tactics and eventually sent fighter jets if closing the airspace failed to achieve what they wanted.
- relativ575 5y agoYou are speculating. Austria isn't a NATO member and no US fighter jets can go there without their permission. The plane could have come back to Russia. They had a choice.
- ryanlol 5y ago> A slight diplomatic difference in tactics to achieve the same effect A massive difference in tactics, these two are incomparable. Just like denying someone entry at the border is not the same as arresting them and collecting rent from someone isn’t the same as robbing them. Encouraging a plane to land by not allowing them into your airspace is not the same as calling in a fake bomb threat and forcing that plane down with fighter jets.
- iso1631 5y agoO'Leary: Continues to fly his plane over the same route the very next day because passengers didn't buy the "anti kidnap" add-on https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1396771259724206082?s=20 https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1396771259724206082...
- simonh 5y agoAirlines can't just fly their planes off on whatever windy route over Europe they feel like. Did all the other airlines start avoiding Belarus Airspace?
- bradleyjg 5y agoSeveral of them did, yes.
- toyg 5y agoQuite a few of them yes, looks like. The other threads has actually flight paths posted that clearly show that.
- iso1631 5y agoMany did. And no they can't "just do it". The hijacking was yesterday, the Ryanair flight took off from Pathos today. They can file a flightpath avoiding Belarus. Maybe it would be 100 miles longer rather than 50, adding 15 minutes to the journey, and a few extra dollars to the gas bill. Very poor judgement.
- bidirectional 5y agoThe linked tweet is a follow-up to an earlier tweet showing several airlines did just that.
- alfiedotwtf 5y agoState-sponsored hijacking when they do it, friendly landing to refuel when we do it.
- toyg 5y agoNo, they were both "state-sponsored hijacking". I don't think anyone is particularly proud of their involvement in the Snowden-Morales case, it was a shameful case of bootlicking to an enraged US emperor. The point "we" should make is that, if we really believe in civil democracy, these things should not happen ever again, no matter the flag.
- w0de0 5y ago“We...” Did you intend to place yourself in the camp of a petty (in both senses) dictator?
- TheGigaChad 5y agoThe whatabout subhumans are at it again...
- londons_explore 5y agoWhat did that journalist do to anger Belarus that badly? He was only 26 years old... How do you stoke a regime so badly they send a bunch of KGB agents after you? Most journalists at age 26 are still writing about cats stuck up trees...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- nigerian1981 5y agoRoman Protasevich is wanted for organising last year’s protests against Alexander Lukashenko
- sandworm101 5y agoHow? You stand for election. Why? You forget to lose.
- smcl 5y agoEdit: misread comment
- one2three4 5y agoI think he's taking about the current president.
- varjag 5y agoHe was a co-editor of the most popular Telegram channel, which people used to get the news and coordinate the protests. The protests (spanning dozens of cities and towns, hundreds of thousands people, lasting months) dealt a blow to ego of Lukashenko. It is remarkable that Tsikhankuskaya, seen as winning the elections in August and now in exile, was taking the same route a week ago but he chose Roman to be abducted instead. Just shows how deeply he got under Luka skin and why there is zero chance for calls to release him to have any effect. He literally bet the future of country's civil aviation for petty revenge. tl;dr: Live your life so they have to intercept you with fighter jets by your mid-20s.
- one2three4 5y agohttps://twitter.com/VoicesBelarus/status/1396806559792082945 https://twitter.com/VoicesBelarus/status/1396806559792082945 I won't be surprised if all flies in/out to Belarus are suspended.
- zero_deg_kevin 5y agoI suspect insuring planes flying to/from/through Belarus just got a lot more expensive.