9 ms·

This has also been set in motion: https://i.redd.it/elts5rgbg0171.jpg https://i.redd.it/elts5rgbg0171.jpg

motives 5y ago
Worth noting that the EU has banned entire nations (such as Kazakhstan and others) from flying in EU airspace before for not meeting safety expectations. It is absolutely within possibility to ban Belarus for an overt Chicago convention violation.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Aperocky 5y ago
  Only the airlines, not the nation. You can fly from Kazakhstan on an European carrier to Europe. Europe previously have also banned shoddy Soviet era airliners that are both incredibly loud, toxic and quite unsafe, which is the right thing to do.
  - motives 5y ago
    I feel this is a fairly pedantic correction, though of course you're very correct nonetheless. My opinion is that banning all of a nations major airlines from operating in your airspace is functionally equivalent to banning that nation. Belarus is much like Kazakhstan in that the vast majority of routes from its airports are by its national airlines. Most of the routes to the EU are flown by Belavia (Belarus' national airline) https://www.flightconnections.com/flights-from-minsk-msq https://www.flightconnections.com/flights-from-minsk-msq.
    - Aperocky 5y ago
      Well, I feel like it's important to point out that people can still fly direct from $nation to Europe despite the ban.
      - varjag 5y ago
        Most of flights to Europe are codeshares with Belavia, so not really.
- aphextron 5y ago
  >It is absolutely within possibility to ban Belarus for an overt Chicago convention violation. EU did the same thing in 2013 by forcing the Bolivian president's plane to land in an effort to catch Snowden. They have no moral or legal standing here whatsoever. https://euobserver.com/justice/120734 https://euobserver.com/justice/120734
  - hulitu 5y ago
    No. You don't underestand. Snowden = american criminal. America = our friend. This guy = belorussian criminal. Lukashenkon - until some months ago our friend, now - our enemy.
  - ryanlol 5y ago
    This wasn’t even remotely similar. Those EU countries didn’t allow the plane into their airspace, encouraging it to land in a third country to refuel. Belarus called in a fake bomb threat and used their fighter jets to force a passenger flight to land in their territory, not to mention the KGB officers on board making a scene. Outcome might be similar, but it’s specifically the tactics used which make this unacceptable.
    - aphextron 5y ago
      >Those EU countries didn’t allow the plane into their airspace, encouraging it to land in a third country to refuel. Seems like a trivial difference. Denying access to your airspace comes with the implicit threat of fighter interception.
      - ddalex 5y ago
        In the event that you are not a Russian troll, let me explain two key differences: The Morales jet was warned ahead of time in a legal way, not intercepted and forced to land in an unintended destination. No persons from the Morales jet were detained. One is an lawful act (perhaps imoral in some way) , and one is an arbitrary act outside of any lawful framework . I hope this clears the confusion.
golergka 5y ago
European diplomats being "strongly concerned" have long become a running joke here in Russia: https://twitter.com/ISEUConcerned https://twitter.com/ISEUConcerned I sincerely hope that this statement finally gets backed up by some decisive action that can put real pressure on these dictators, but I don't get my hopes up.
- thinkingemote 5y ago
  I know that people can joke about the west in Russia but are people allowed to make jokes about their own government in Russia and in the associated eastern european states? Is it like China yet? I'm guessing not as there's no visible list of banned words and phrases, but we don't see (in HN) much criticism of Russia, Belarus from there, just attacks on the hypocrisy of the West. Do you see it headed towards China, where no internal criticism is allowed?
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    How will you know if the answer to this is honest or censored, though?
    - thinkingemote 5y ago
      For the Chinese you can tell when they cannot even refer to, say or admit certain things: e.g. massacres. But they would say "we are not being censored" For China and Russia, etc, it feels as if by mocking the hypocrisy of the West they are naively assuming that there's no such criticism from within the West. I think this is revealing but I might be wrong.
      - kofejnik 5y ago
        > For the Chinese you can tell when they cannot even refer to, say or admit certain things: e.g. massacres. But they would say "we are not being censored" It is exactly the same in Russia, you may not mention certain historical facts at all, e.g. Germany-USSR cooperation during 1939-1941

Worth noting that the EU has banned entire nations (such as Kazakhstan and others) from flying in EU airspace before for not meeting safety expectations. It is absolutely within possibility to ban Belarus for an overt Chicago convention violation.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Aperocky 5y ago
Only the airlines, not the nation. You can fly from Kazakhstan on an European carrier to Europe. Europe previously have also banned shoddy Soviet era airliners that are both incredibly loud, toxic and quite unsafe, which is the right thing to do.
- motives 5y ago
  I feel this is a fairly pedantic correction, though of course you're very correct nonetheless. My opinion is that banning all of a nations major airlines from operating in your airspace is functionally equivalent to banning that nation. Belarus is much like Kazakhstan in that the vast majority of routes from its airports are by its national airlines. Most of the routes to the EU are flown by Belavia (Belarus' national airline) https://www.flightconnections.com/flights-from-minsk-msq https://www.flightconnections.com/flights-from-minsk-msq.
  - Aperocky 5y ago
    Well, I feel like it's important to point out that people can still fly direct from $nation to Europe despite the ban.
    - varjag 5y ago
      Most of flights to Europe are codeshares with Belavia, so not really.
aphextron 5y ago
>It is absolutely within possibility to ban Belarus for an overt Chicago convention violation. EU did the same thing in 2013 by forcing the Bolivian president's plane to land in an effort to catch Snowden. They have no moral or legal standing here whatsoever. https://euobserver.com/justice/120734 https://euobserver.com/justice/120734
- hulitu 5y ago
  No. You don't underestand. Snowden = american criminal. America = our friend. This guy = belorussian criminal. Lukashenkon - until some months ago our friend, now - our enemy.
- ryanlol 5y ago
  This wasn’t even remotely similar. Those EU countries didn’t allow the plane into their airspace, encouraging it to land in a third country to refuel. Belarus called in a fake bomb threat and used their fighter jets to force a passenger flight to land in their territory, not to mention the KGB officers on board making a scene. Outcome might be similar, but it’s specifically the tactics used which make this unacceptable.
  - aphextron 5y ago
    >Those EU countries didn’t allow the plane into their airspace, encouraging it to land in a third country to refuel. Seems like a trivial difference. Denying access to your airspace comes with the implicit threat of fighter interception.
    - ddalex 5y ago
      In the event that you are not a Russian troll, let me explain two key differences: The Morales jet was warned ahead of time in a legal way, not intercepted and forced to land in an unintended destination. No persons from the Morales jet were detained. One is an lawful act (perhaps imoral in some way) , and one is an arbitrary act outside of any lawful framework . I hope this clears the confusion.

golergka 5y ago

European diplomats being "strongly concerned" have long become a running joke here in Russia: https://twitter.com/ISEUConcerned https://twitter.com/ISEUConcerned I sincerely hope that this statement finally gets backed up by some decisive action that can put real pressure on these dictators, but I don't get my hopes up.

thinkingemote 5y ago
I know that people can joke about the west in Russia but are people allowed to make jokes about their own government in Russia and in the associated eastern european states? Is it like China yet? I'm guessing not as there's no visible list of banned words and phrases, but we don't see (in HN) much criticism of Russia, Belarus from there, just attacks on the hypocrisy of the West. Do you see it headed towards China, where no internal criticism is allowed?
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  How will you know if the answer to this is honest or censored, though?
  - thinkingemote 5y ago
    For the Chinese you can tell when they cannot even refer to, say or admit certain things: e.g. massacres. But they would say "we are not being censored" For China and Russia, etc, it feels as if by mocking the hypocrisy of the West they are naively assuming that there's no such criticism from within the West. I think this is revealing but I might be wrong.
    - kofejnik 5y ago
      > For the Chinese you can tell when they cannot even refer to, say or admit certain things: e.g. massacres. But they would say "we are not being censored" It is exactly the same in Russia, you may not mention certain historical facts at all, e.g. Germany-USSR cooperation during 1939-1941