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Electric truck to get rural-centric areas on electric vehicles? Sounds great. Touchscreens at the helm? Bad plan. I'm very happy with physical buttons that

Electric truck to get rural-centric areas on electric vehicles? Sounds great. Touchscreens at the helm? Bad plan. I'm very happy with physical buttons that with distinct tactile feedback for hands only use. Distractions in the cab should be eliminated, not increased.

crooked-v 5y ago
It seems particularly weird that they put that physical wheel at the bottom for a dedicated vehicle control area, but didn't bother to just, like, put individual buttons there. I'm happy that Mazda, by comparison, is specifically moving away from touchscreens and strictly to a combination of dedicated physical controls and more limited screens with a dial/puck control.
- Reason077 5y ago
  > "instead of just, like, putting individual buttons there." A touch screen is cheaper, because they can re-use the same hardware between different vehicles rather than having to design/build/assemble a slightly different set of physical buttons for different models with different features. It also allows for the interface to improve/evolve over time with software updates, something that Tesla has very much taken advantage of. Tesla Model S's from 2012 still get software updates with new features from time to time.
  - FriendlyNormie 5y ago
    Eat shit, fuckface. Touchscreens in cars should be illegal.
  - belatw 5y ago
    > A touch screen is cheaper, because they can re-use the same hardware between different vehicles rather than having to design/build/assemble a slightly different set of physical buttons for different models with different features. Any savings will be lost by one class action lawsuit or mass recall. Touch screen is the wrong interface when lives are on the line.
    - Reason077 5y ago
      There are already millions of Teslas and other vehicles on the road with touch screen interfaces. No lawsuits so far.
      - crooked-v 5y ago
        You only have to search "Tesla touch screen lawsuit" to find that there have, in fact, been multiple lawsuits over problems with the touchscreen, as well as a recall of 135,000 vehicles.
        Reason077 5y ago
        That recall has nothing to do with the fact that it's a touch interface. The fault was a flash memory chip that would fail after a few years of use.
        Bancakes 5y ago
        Why does a premium vehicle with a premium tablet have faulty components not seen even on consumer devices?
        Reason077 5y ago
        Because Tesla screwed up. The component itself (an 8GB e-MMC flash chip) actually wasn't faulty, but it was being misused/overused by constantly writing syslog data to it. Apparently this could amount to hundreds of MB of writes per day, with the device already mostly filled with firmware. After a few years of this it would exceed its write-cycle limit and start to fail.
      - Hamuko 5y ago
        https://electrek.co/2020/08/04/tesla-wiper-controls-ruled-illegal-germany-crashed/ https://electrek.co/2020/08/04/tesla-wiper-controls-ruled-il... Not exactly a lawsuit but on the judicial axis.
  - Bancakes 5y ago
    Cheaper? You mean $5 of plastic and rubber versus a overpriced tablet? Consumers lose functionality and gain nothing. I don't want to play angry birds or whatever Tesla offers, I want to hit the AC button for the AC, or the radio button for the radio. All cars have these basic features.
    - MrRiddle 5y ago
      Buttons need to be designed, dash that fits those buttons need to be designed. They already get the touchscreen, adding smaller screen + buttons is more expensive than no buttons + larger screen.
      - Bancakes 5y ago
        Redesigned how, 90% of cars look the same, and it's been industry standard for years.
      - swiley 5y ago
        I was kind of with you up until here. Radios at least are modular in most cars so you can just swap them out. I wouldn't be too surprised if everything else was designed this way at most car manufacturers but with a proprietary module system. Many seem to pick one or two design languages and at that point the buttons need to be designed one or two times.
  - voisin 5y ago
    Am I correct in thinking that no other car company is doing meaningful updates regardless of the technology stack they’ve implemented? I have a Ram 1500 with a giant screen and lots of bugs in its software, but have yet (2+ years) to see any updates. I have a family member with a 3 year old Mercedes and it still apparently costs $500 to have the dealer update the GPS mapping (bizarrely competing with the free and far superior Google Maps or Apple Maps via Android Auto or CarPlay…) I think Tesla implementing major advances like intermittent wipers via OTA update is amazing and related to their culture. I don’t expected to see Ford or others follow suit. The only company that could possibly take this on IMO is VW because they’ve embraced EV beyond any other competitor with ground up new designs.
    - crooked-v 5y ago
      That kind of thing is why I'm treating Android Auto/Apple CarPlay as a required feature for any future car I get, and treating the car's own infotainment system as merely a substrate for that functionality.
      - swiley 5y ago
        Android sounds great, devices using it absolutely get lots of updates long into the future. Oh wait.
        Reason077 5y ago
        The point with Android Auto (and CarPlay) is that it keeps working with future devices. Your current phone might stop getting updates, but your new one will work with your car too. The interface is actually running on your phone, but using your car's display as an external display and touch input device.
- rich_sasha 5y ago
  As well as my general dislike of touchscreens, this is especially so in outdoorsy kit where you are prone to have dirty hands. You are then putting the dirt on the bit for seeing information. Also, for me, outdoorsy kit should be operable in gloves. Vehicles with hearing are a bit of an exception I guess, but still.
Reason077 5y ago
> "Touchscreens at the helm? Bad plan. I'm very happy with physical buttons" Ford still has plenty of physical buttons. They haven't gone the Tesla route of making almost every function exclusively accessed by the touch screen. It looks to me like you can access most things you'd want to use while driving directly from the buttons on the steering wheel. > "Distractions in the cab should be eliminated, not increased." The ideal interface here is really good, interactive voice. Hands-free and eyes-free. Unfortunately, most in-car voice interfaces aren't quite their yet, including Tesla's.
- Hamuko 5y ago
  >The ideal interface here is really good, interactive voice. Hands-free and eyes-free. Let me guess: your native language is American English and you have no "weird" accent.
  - Reason077 5y ago
    I have an accent that Americans would consider pretty weird. Siri has absolutely no problems with it. Google Voice isn't bad either. These things are pretty internationalised now days, and will only get better in the future.
    - Hamuko 5y ago
      Tell that to my Siri, who thinks I am constantly asking for "Obama lights".
      - rich_sasha 5y ago
        I’m sorry for your pain (I feel it too!) but I can’t figure out what Siri misheard as “Obama lights”..? Fwiw my car always thinks I’m trying to call someone or listen to obscure 60s pop, when all I want is to adjust the AC
        Hamuko 5y ago
        "Obama lights" is the most common mishearing when I ask Siri to turn on the "apartment lights".
cosmodisk 5y ago
Even S class Mercedes went down this way by putting a silly looking tablet in the middle of the car. It just looks bad and as you said,I'd rather have physical knobs instead.
grammarprofess 5y ago
Having friends and family drive and being in passenger seat, never felt comfortable with people reaching for buttons, knobs for AC or radio. Interesting you find the single large touchscreen to be a bigger distraction/danger than the 20 different controls in a f150
- Dah00n 5y ago
  Research shows touchscreens are much more dangerous. Even voice control is more dangerous than buttons in all but a few cases (siri and Tesla bad, Toyota okay, etc.).
  - grammarprofess 5y ago
    What research? how is it more dangerous? If your tesla regulates AC well and spotify doesn't play Ads or bad radio signal or bad songs. Then you don't have a need to touch the buttons of the radio or the AC. Why the touchscreen is there, is to have nice entertainment while you're charging!
deepsun 5y ago
It's just savings -- it's cheaper and easier to update software buttons than hardware.
FriendlyNormie 5y ago
The touchscreens-in-cars debate was over long ago. Fuck these god damned retards, fuck Elon most of all for pushing it so hard and getting these brainless dickriding me-too companies to go along with it.

crooked-v 5y ago

It seems particularly weird that they put that physical wheel at the bottom for a dedicated vehicle control area, but didn't bother to just, like, put individual buttons there. I'm happy that Mazda, by comparison, is specifically moving away from touchscreens and strictly to a combination of dedicated physical controls and more limited screens with a dial/puck control.

Reason077 5y ago
> "instead of just, like, putting individual buttons there." A touch screen is cheaper, because they can re-use the same hardware between different vehicles rather than having to design/build/assemble a slightly different set of physical buttons for different models with different features. It also allows for the interface to improve/evolve over time with software updates, something that Tesla has very much taken advantage of. Tesla Model S's from 2012 still get software updates with new features from time to time.
- FriendlyNormie 5y ago
  Eat shit, fuckface. Touchscreens in cars should be illegal.
- belatw 5y ago
  > A touch screen is cheaper, because they can re-use the same hardware between different vehicles rather than having to design/build/assemble a slightly different set of physical buttons for different models with different features. Any savings will be lost by one class action lawsuit or mass recall. Touch screen is the wrong interface when lives are on the line.
  - Reason077 5y ago
    There are already millions of Teslas and other vehicles on the road with touch screen interfaces. No lawsuits so far.
    - crooked-v 5y ago
      You only have to search "Tesla touch screen lawsuit" to find that there have, in fact, been multiple lawsuits over problems with the touchscreen, as well as a recall of 135,000 vehicles.
      - Reason077 5y ago
        That recall has nothing to do with the fact that it's a touch interface. The fault was a flash memory chip that would fail after a few years of use.
        Bancakes 5y ago
        Why does a premium vehicle with a premium tablet have faulty components not seen even on consumer devices?
        Reason077 5y ago
        Because Tesla screwed up. The component itself (an 8GB e-MMC flash chip) actually wasn't faulty, but it was being misused/overused by constantly writing syslog data to it. Apparently this could amount to hundreds of MB of writes per day, with the device already mostly filled with firmware. After a few years of this it would exceed its write-cycle limit and start to fail.
    - Hamuko 5y ago
      https://electrek.co/2020/08/04/tesla-wiper-controls-ruled-illegal-germany-crashed/ https://electrek.co/2020/08/04/tesla-wiper-controls-ruled-il... Not exactly a lawsuit but on the judicial axis.
- Bancakes 5y ago
  Cheaper? You mean $5 of plastic and rubber versus a overpriced tablet? Consumers lose functionality and gain nothing. I don't want to play angry birds or whatever Tesla offers, I want to hit the AC button for the AC, or the radio button for the radio. All cars have these basic features.
  - MrRiddle 5y ago
    Buttons need to be designed, dash that fits those buttons need to be designed. They already get the touchscreen, adding smaller screen + buttons is more expensive than no buttons + larger screen.
    - Bancakes 5y ago
      Redesigned how, 90% of cars look the same, and it's been industry standard for years.
    - swiley 5y ago
      I was kind of with you up until here. Radios at least are modular in most cars so you can just swap them out. I wouldn't be too surprised if everything else was designed this way at most car manufacturers but with a proprietary module system. Many seem to pick one or two design languages and at that point the buttons need to be designed one or two times.
- voisin 5y ago
  Am I correct in thinking that no other car company is doing meaningful updates regardless of the technology stack they’ve implemented? I have a Ram 1500 with a giant screen and lots of bugs in its software, but have yet (2+ years) to see any updates. I have a family member with a 3 year old Mercedes and it still apparently costs $500 to have the dealer update the GPS mapping (bizarrely competing with the free and far superior Google Maps or Apple Maps via Android Auto or CarPlay…) I think Tesla implementing major advances like intermittent wipers via OTA update is amazing and related to their culture. I don’t expected to see Ford or others follow suit. The only company that could possibly take this on IMO is VW because they’ve embraced EV beyond any other competitor with ground up new designs.
  - crooked-v 5y ago
    That kind of thing is why I'm treating Android Auto/Apple CarPlay as a required feature for any future car I get, and treating the car's own infotainment system as merely a substrate for that functionality.
    - swiley 5y ago
      Android sounds great, devices using it absolutely get lots of updates long into the future. Oh wait.
      - Reason077 5y ago
        The point with Android Auto (and CarPlay) is that it keeps working with future devices. Your current phone might stop getting updates, but your new one will work with your car too. The interface is actually running on your phone, but using your car's display as an external display and touch input device.
rich_sasha 5y ago
As well as my general dislike of touchscreens, this is especially so in outdoorsy kit where you are prone to have dirty hands. You are then putting the dirt on the bit for seeing information. Also, for me, outdoorsy kit should be operable in gloves. Vehicles with hearing are a bit of an exception I guess, but still.

Reason077 5y ago

> "Touchscreens at the helm? Bad plan. I'm very happy with physical buttons" Ford still has plenty of physical buttons. They haven't gone the Tesla route of making almost every function exclusively accessed by the touch screen. It looks to me like you can access most things you'd want to use while driving directly from the buttons on the steering wheel. > "Distractions in the cab should be eliminated, not increased." The ideal interface here is really good, interactive voice. Hands-free and eyes-free. Unfortunately, most in-car voice interfaces aren't quite their yet, including Tesla's.

Hamuko 5y ago
>The ideal interface here is really good, interactive voice. Hands-free and eyes-free. Let me guess: your native language is American English and you have no "weird" accent.
- Reason077 5y ago
  I have an accent that Americans would consider pretty weird. Siri has absolutely no problems with it. Google Voice isn't bad either. These things are pretty internationalised now days, and will only get better in the future.
  - Hamuko 5y ago
    Tell that to my Siri, who thinks I am constantly asking for "Obama lights".
    - rich_sasha 5y ago
      I’m sorry for your pain (I feel it too!) but I can’t figure out what Siri misheard as “Obama lights”..? Fwiw my car always thinks I’m trying to call someone or listen to obscure 60s pop, when all I want is to adjust the AC
      - Hamuko 5y ago
        "Obama lights" is the most common mishearing when I ask Siri to turn on the "apartment lights".

cosmodisk 5y ago

Even S class Mercedes went down this way by putting a silly looking tablet in the middle of the car. It just looks bad and as you said,I'd rather have physical knobs instead.

grammarprofess 5y ago

Having friends and family drive and being in passenger seat, never felt comfortable with people reaching for buttons, knobs for AC or radio. Interesting you find the single large touchscreen to be a bigger distraction/danger than the 20 different controls in a f150

Dah00n 5y ago
Research shows touchscreens are much more dangerous. Even voice control is more dangerous than buttons in all but a few cases (siri and Tesla bad, Toyota okay, etc.).
- grammarprofess 5y ago
  What research? how is it more dangerous? If your tesla regulates AC well and spotify doesn't play Ads or bad radio signal or bad songs. Then you don't have a need to touch the buttons of the radio or the AC. Why the touchscreen is there, is to have nice entertainment while you're charging!

deepsun 5y ago

It's just savings -- it's cheaper and easier to update software buttons than hardware.

FriendlyNormie 5y ago

The touchscreens-in-cars debate was over long ago. Fuck these god damned retards, fuck Elon most of all for pushing it so hard and getting these brainless dickriding me-too companies to go along with it.