4 ms·

"with symptoms consistent with both COVID-19 and common seasonal illnesses" So 3 staff had gotten sick that flu season. Staff who work with infectious diseases

"with symptoms consistent with both COVID-19 and common seasonal illnesses" So 3 staff had gotten sick that flu season. Staff who work with infectious diseases and probably get every cough and cold checked out just in case. Seems pretty baseline average to me.

xyzzy123 5y ago
I have no idea if that's baseline average or not, personally I find the article frustrating. There's no discussion of how many people work at the lab, how many staff visited hospital the year before that, whether it is in fact common for those staff to visit hospital when they have seasonal flu, or any other factors that would put this in any sort of context at all.
- bungle 5y ago
  This could well be reason to prohibit such research. When things go wrong, they will be covered. It took WHO over a year to be able to enter China. And what did they do? Release a memo denying laboratory theory without any evidence. No bat, nor intermediate has been found (not the case with SARS/MERS). Sure there is no evidence on lab theory either. The Chinese army has been running that lab since this started.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- koheripbal 5y ago
  It's a large lab. Perhaps a couple hundred work there. ...but even still, 3 admitted to hospital for flu symptoms in that demographic is very high, statistically - even if literally ALL employees caught the seasonal flu at the same time.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    What data are you using? In China people go to the hospital for a cold routinely. People also used to do so in my country until the government cracked down on it, fwiw. And no its not a couple hundred. 600 people work at that lab. So 3 people with seasonal illness out of 600 at one time is incredibly unremarkable.
    - giardini 5y ago
      sudosysgen says>" In China people go to the hospital for a cold routinely. People also used to do so in my country until the government cracked down on it, fwiw." Yes, but these were three staff who work with infectious diseases and so would not be expected to use hospital resources frivolously. In fact, they would be considered shirkers to do so for a cold. If a doctor at a hospital needs an aspirin he merely takes it - he doesn't check into the hospital, take a bed, etc.
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        They didn't take a bed. Again, I don't think you understand the context. There is no claim they took a bed or took any resources beyond going to see a someone, not even necessarily a doctor, and then leaving, perhaps for as little as 30 minutes. I don't see that they're necessarily using any resources in a detrimental way, I'd expect that if they were this practice would be curbed. It is China after all.
  - tzs 5y ago
    Considering how contagious COVID is and how serious it was when it was new and we hadn't yet figured out effective treatments, wouldn't only 3 being admitted to hospitals be way too low statistically if what they had was COVID and they worked at the source of the outbreak?
koheripbal 5y ago
> and probably get every cough and cold checked out just in case I work with infectious disease lab workers, and this isn't correct. None of them get every cold checked out just in case. Labs have no procedure for that. If anything, it's the opposite as they are confident of their immune system.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Are they Chinese? Because what you're describing is very common in China.
eloff 5y ago
Its not that three got sick, that would be unremarkable. But three got sick so seriously as to seek hospital treatment. That would be unusual. Given the proximity to the covid19 outbreak, there's a high probability that's the first known cases of covid19 - if confirmed.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Yeah this is bullshit. People in China routinely go to hospitals for colds. It's cheap, and it makes you feel better, so why not. Its already incredibly common for average Chinese people to go to a hospital for a cold, and I'd expect someone working in a virology lab would be even more likely to do so.
  - eloff 5y ago
    You'd need to know how often that happens, how many people work in the lab, etc to make a good calculation of the probability. Maybe you're right, let's see how it plays out.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      I don't need to, I don't have the burden of proof. All I need to point out is that this is not out of the ordinary at all.
      - eloff 5y ago
        I didn't say you need to. But looking at the sibling comment, you'd have to be right about it being ordinary not for general citizens but for experts in infectious disease - which is unlikely. Those kinds of people don't seek treatment for a virus unless it's serious. They already know there is no treatment. I even know that and don't seek treatment, and I'm no expert.
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        It's not true that there is no treatment for the symptoms of viral infections. IV fluids, codeine, and ibuprofen will make you feel much better, even if it doesn't improve the underlying infection. Those are exactly the things a Chinese hospital will administer. If you were presenting to a hospital with Covid beyond what you might feel for a flu, you would be reporting difficulty breathing or loss of smell and taste. However, they had symptoms consistent with seasonal illness. So it's pretty obvious that the typical Chinese reaction is the best fit.

xyzzy123 5y ago

I have no idea if that's baseline average or not, personally I find the article frustrating. There's no discussion of how many people work at the lab, how many staff visited hospital the year before that, whether it is in fact common for those staff to visit hospital when they have seasonal flu, or any other factors that would put this in any sort of context at all.

bungle 5y ago
This could well be reason to prohibit such research. When things go wrong, they will be covered. It took WHO over a year to be able to enter China. And what did they do? Release a memo denying laboratory theory without any evidence. No bat, nor intermediate has been found (not the case with SARS/MERS). Sure there is no evidence on lab theory either. The Chinese army has been running that lab since this started.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
koheripbal 5y ago
It's a large lab. Perhaps a couple hundred work there. ...but even still, 3 admitted to hospital for flu symptoms in that demographic is very high, statistically - even if literally ALL employees caught the seasonal flu at the same time.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  What data are you using? In China people go to the hospital for a cold routinely. People also used to do so in my country until the government cracked down on it, fwiw. And no its not a couple hundred. 600 people work at that lab. So 3 people with seasonal illness out of 600 at one time is incredibly unremarkable.
  - giardini 5y ago
    sudosysgen says>" In China people go to the hospital for a cold routinely. People also used to do so in my country until the government cracked down on it, fwiw." Yes, but these were three staff who work with infectious diseases and so would not be expected to use hospital resources frivolously. In fact, they would be considered shirkers to do so for a cold. If a doctor at a hospital needs an aspirin he merely takes it - he doesn't check into the hospital, take a bed, etc.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      They didn't take a bed. Again, I don't think you understand the context. There is no claim they took a bed or took any resources beyond going to see a someone, not even necessarily a doctor, and then leaving, perhaps for as little as 30 minutes. I don't see that they're necessarily using any resources in a detrimental way, I'd expect that if they were this practice would be curbed. It is China after all.
- tzs 5y ago
  Considering how contagious COVID is and how serious it was when it was new and we hadn't yet figured out effective treatments, wouldn't only 3 being admitted to hospitals be way too low statistically if what they had was COVID and they worked at the source of the outbreak?

koheripbal 5y ago

> and probably get every cough and cold checked out just in case I work with infectious disease lab workers, and this isn't correct. None of them get every cold checked out just in case. Labs have no procedure for that. If anything, it's the opposite as they are confident of their immune system.

sudosysgen 5y ago
Are they Chinese? Because what you're describing is very common in China.

eloff 5y ago

Its not that three got sick, that would be unremarkable. But three got sick so seriously as to seek hospital treatment. That would be unusual. Given the proximity to the covid19 outbreak, there's a high probability that's the first known cases of covid19 - if confirmed.

sudosysgen 5y ago
Yeah this is bullshit. People in China routinely go to hospitals for colds. It's cheap, and it makes you feel better, so why not. Its already incredibly common for average Chinese people to go to a hospital for a cold, and I'd expect someone working in a virology lab would be even more likely to do so.
- eloff 5y ago
  You'd need to know how often that happens, how many people work in the lab, etc to make a good calculation of the probability. Maybe you're right, let's see how it plays out.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    I don't need to, I don't have the burden of proof. All I need to point out is that this is not out of the ordinary at all.
    - eloff 5y ago
      I didn't say you need to. But looking at the sibling comment, you'd have to be right about it being ordinary not for general citizens but for experts in infectious disease - which is unlikely. Those kinds of people don't seek treatment for a virus unless it's serious. They already know there is no treatment. I even know that and don't seek treatment, and I'm no expert.
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        It's not true that there is no treatment for the symptoms of viral infections. IV fluids, codeine, and ibuprofen will make you feel much better, even if it doesn't improve the underlying infection. Those are exactly the things a Chinese hospital will administer. If you were presenting to a hospital with Covid beyond what you might feel for a flu, you would be reporting difficulty breathing or loss of smell and taste. However, they had symptoms consistent with seasonal illness. So it's pretty obvious that the typical Chinese reaction is the best fit.