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Do you really hate it though? What other alternatives have you even experienced to be able to say that? Also, you are posting in a tech forum, which is perhaps

by proc0 5y ago

Do you really hate it though? What other alternatives have you even experienced to be able to say that? Also, you are posting in a tech forum, which is perhaps the epitome of capitalism. I don't like businesses focusing on profit so much either. I'm not sure if it's sustainable to focus on something else instead. Maybe when business ignore profit they crash and burn. I'm not sure because I don't like to think about profit, I'm a technician/specialist first, and find finances very boring. I would think small business could accomplish this, by staying small and focusing on the product and not growth. However the past year has definitely favored large corporations that could handle the lockdowns.

Layke1123 5y ago
I really do. It doesn't fix anything, only makes problems worse. Who cares that I can get a burrito delivered with a button press when people are starving and inequality is only rising? Why does it not fix these problems and instead propagate them?
- proc0 5y ago
  Well, in theory the people starving are not under proper capitalism. Usually they're under some corrupt government that doesn't let small businesses thrive. You can't open businesses in those poor countries like you can in the US. Think about all the immigrants that are fighting to come to the US, and many of them end up having their own small business (many of which unfortunately had to close during last year, but that's a different matter). I don't disagree about the rampant inequality at the global scale, but the solution is not clear and definitely not simple, especially when factoring different nations, different peoples and cultures and styles of living. Ultimately capitalism is solving some problems, and I'm not sure that the problems it is not solving, are the ones it is creating. In other words, maybe these problems exist despite capitalism, and we need systems on top of it, not a replacement.
  - Layke1123 5y ago
    "In theory"... Yet the whole world is suffering under capitalism.
    - proc0 5y ago
      Is it ALL under capitalism? The 20th century was an on-going battle to see what political system would take over, and capitalism took the lead, but it's NOT because it took over, but rather that the other systems collapsed under their own incompetence. Long story short, capitalism is the only known system that has at least produced some wealth, granted in the process also produced greater inequality, but again, I'm not convinced those problems are entirely due to capitalism, and it could well be the case that more wealth will always produce inequality until we find a new complementary system that doesn't attempt to undo capitalism and instead works alongside it.
      - Layke1123 5y ago
        But nothing has come along. Nothing is getting fixed. We can't even pass infrastructure bills in this country because half of it is fuckimg idiotic.
sp332 5y ago
There are non-capitalist business models. Employee-owned ones, like many "bootstrapped" ones featured on this website.
- db48x 5y ago
  Those are also capitalist.
  - sp332 5y ago
    There are no capitalists, so how is it capitalist? Workers "owning the means of production" is famously compatible with non-capitalist business models.
    - db48x 5y ago
      Anyone who puts their own capital into some enterprise is a capitalist. It doesn’t require a particular job title or upbringing. Whether it’s two people working out of a garage and feeding themselves from their own savings in order to build a new business, or employees of a business who buy the business from its former owner, it’s all capitalism. Socialism and Communism were all about turning over all forms of ownership over to the government, and then allowing the government to decide who gets what and who is allowed to work where. In the end that puts all of the wealth and decision–making power into the hands of a single autocratic leader, no matter what the propaganda might claim.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - sp332 5y ago
        This is incorrect. A capitalist is someone who puts money into the business and expects profit out of it without doing the work. Profit is the difference between the net value generated by the workers and the amount paid out to the workers.
        5y ago

by proc0 5y ago

Layke1123 5y ago

I really do. It doesn't fix anything, only makes problems worse. Who cares that I can get a burrito delivered with a button press when people are starving and inequality is only rising? Why does it not fix these problems and instead propagate them?

proc0 5y ago
Well, in theory the people starving are not under proper capitalism. Usually they're under some corrupt government that doesn't let small businesses thrive. You can't open businesses in those poor countries like you can in the US. Think about all the immigrants that are fighting to come to the US, and many of them end up having their own small business (many of which unfortunately had to close during last year, but that's a different matter). I don't disagree about the rampant inequality at the global scale, but the solution is not clear and definitely not simple, especially when factoring different nations, different peoples and cultures and styles of living. Ultimately capitalism is solving some problems, and I'm not sure that the problems it is not solving, are the ones it is creating. In other words, maybe these problems exist despite capitalism, and we need systems on top of it, not a replacement.
- Layke1123 5y ago
  "In theory"... Yet the whole world is suffering under capitalism.
  - proc0 5y ago
    Is it ALL under capitalism? The 20th century was an on-going battle to see what political system would take over, and capitalism took the lead, but it's NOT because it took over, but rather that the other systems collapsed under their own incompetence. Long story short, capitalism is the only known system that has at least produced some wealth, granted in the process also produced greater inequality, but again, I'm not convinced those problems are entirely due to capitalism, and it could well be the case that more wealth will always produce inequality until we find a new complementary system that doesn't attempt to undo capitalism and instead works alongside it.
    - Layke1123 5y ago
      But nothing has come along. Nothing is getting fixed. We can't even pass infrastructure bills in this country because half of it is fuckimg idiotic.

sp332 5y ago

There are non-capitalist business models. Employee-owned ones, like many "bootstrapped" ones featured on this website.

db48x 5y ago
Those are also capitalist.
- sp332 5y ago
  There are no capitalists, so how is it capitalist? Workers "owning the means of production" is famously compatible with non-capitalist business models.
  - db48x 5y ago
    Anyone who puts their own capital into some enterprise is a capitalist. It doesn’t require a particular job title or upbringing. Whether it’s two people working out of a garage and feeding themselves from their own savings in order to build a new business, or employees of a business who buy the business from its former owner, it’s all capitalism. Socialism and Communism were all about turning over all forms of ownership over to the government, and then allowing the government to decide who gets what and who is allowed to work where. In the end that puts all of the wealth and decision–making power into the hands of a single autocratic leader, no matter what the propaganda might claim.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - sp332 5y ago
      This is incorrect. A capitalist is someone who puts money into the business and expects profit out of it without doing the work. Profit is the difference between the net value generated by the workers and the amount paid out to the workers.
      - 5y ago