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I think tptacek's / geofft's point is that using Tulsi as a representation of the far-left is a questionable choice. And I think I agree with him: While the po

by pen2l 5y ago

I think tptacek's / geofft's point is that using Tulsi as a representation of the far-left is a questionable choice. And I think I agree with him: While the points you raise about NRA ratings are true, the perception on the ground is far from that. She is reviled by most blue outlets and cast as "one of the good ones" from the red ones (searching for "tulsi" on brietbart, nearly all results are painting her in a positive light: https://www.breitbart.com/search/?s=tulsi#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=tulsi&gsc.page=1 https://www.breitbart.com/search/?s=tulsi#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=tu... and conversely on HP, most results are painting her in a negative light: https://www.huffpost.com/news/topic/tulsi-gabbard https://www.huffpost.com/news/topic/tulsi-gabbard ). You know, if you want to have your finger on the pulse of the "real voters" out there (and I'm not being facetious here!), you should visit freerepublic once in a while as well as r/politics, just to see the tenor and positions of folks on opposing sides of political spectrum up-close.

rayiner 5y ago
I didn’t say she was “far left.” I said she’s “solidly left wing.” Which based in her positions she is. The fact that Democrats in the media don’t like her doesn’t mean a thing. They’re the reason nearly every major 2020 candidate raised their hand to wildly unpopular ideas like decriminalizing illegal border crossing and universal healthcare for illegal immigrants. Catering to them destroyed the candidacy of Elizabeth Warren: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/elizabeth-warren-book-persist-campaign-memoir-2020.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/elizabeth-warren-boo.... They’re the reason why Democrats nearly lost 2020 until voters of color saved their butts by making Biden the candidate (which the Warren supporters in the media had written off totally). The fact that folks on the right like her also proves nothing. That’s just the opposite side of nearly every 2020 Democratic candidate marching in lockstep to extreme positions. Gabbard gets attention from the right because the entire lineup (besides Biden) is “celebrate your abortion” while Gabbard was like “hey, a third of Democrats identify as pro life, so let’s stick with safe legal and rare.” (https://www.vice.com/en/article/43k5db/tulsi-gabbards-stance-on-abortion-is-stuck-in-the-90s https://www.vice.com/en/article/43k5db/tulsi-gabbards-stance...) People on /r/politics and other “very online people are not “real voters.” Those are the people who thought Elizabeth Warren was a viable candidate. The real voters are people like my parents who tuned in on Super Tuesday to propel Biden to the nomination.
- geofft 5y ago
  Several of her positions, taken individually, are solidly left-wing. Not every position she has is solidly left-wing; a few are solidly right-wing, in the sense that they would be completely unsurprising coming from Republican legislators. (Nothing inherently wrong with having positions that people across the aisle would agree with! In fact, I think it's so reasonable to have such positions that I think it's unfair to characterize such positions as "heterodox" or "wasn't reading from some memo everyone else got" - I'd simply call them "centrist" or "bipartisan.") Therefore, "Tulsi Gabbard supports X" is not evidence of "X is a left-wing position," because there are several other positions she supports which are definitely not left-wing, and labeling her as a whole as "solidly left-wing" doesn't make that argument any more true. Maybe the centroid of her positions is left-wing, sure, but she's pretty non-solidly left-wing. That's all.
  - rayiner 5y ago
    I said “solidly” not “uniformly.” Most people who are on the left have heterodox views. Gabbard’s are mostly on the left. Also, when I said “heterodox” I don’t mean “bipartisan.” Most people within each party have a mix of views. 90% of Black people vote Democrat but almost half oppose same-sex marriage. About a third of Democrats identify as pro-life. Many oppose abortion after the first trimester and support other restrictions. Plenty of Democrats are pro-second amendment. (Sanders was until recently.) Almost half support the Hyde amendment. Almost half support keeping private insurance. The phenomenon in 2020 with candidates all “reading from the same memo”—adopting a consistent slate of left wing positions—is new and it reflects a minority of actual Democrat voters. Having a mix of views, like Gabbard, makes someone a typical Democrat. And I didn’t say this view was “left wing.” I said it’s not just conservatives, people whose views are mostly right of center, who oppose woke capitalism. Lots of traditional liberals and populist Democrats do as well. The idea that corporations are trustworthy allies in the cause of justice is obviously contentious among Democrats: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/28/opinion/liberals-corporations-woke-capitalism.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/28/opinion/liberals-corporat...

by pen2l 5y ago

rayiner 5y ago

I didn’t say she was “far left.” I said she’s “solidly left wing.” Which based in her positions she is. The fact that Democrats in the media don’t like her doesn’t mean a thing. They’re the reason nearly every major 2020 candidate raised their hand to wildly unpopular ideas like decriminalizing illegal border crossing and universal healthcare for illegal immigrants. Catering to them destroyed the candidacy of Elizabeth Warren: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/elizabeth-warren-book-persist-campaign-memoir-2020.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/elizabeth-warren-boo.... They’re the reason why Democrats nearly lost 2020 until voters of color saved their butts by making Biden the candidate (which the Warren supporters in the media had written off totally). The fact that folks on the right like her also proves nothing. That’s just the opposite side of nearly every 2020 Democratic candidate marching in lockstep to extreme positions. Gabbard gets attention from the right because the entire lineup (besides Biden) is “celebrate your abortion” while Gabbard was like “hey, a third of Democrats identify as pro life, so let’s stick with safe legal and rare.” (https://www.vice.com/en/article/43k5db/tulsi-gabbards-stance-on-abortion-is-stuck-in-the-90s https://www.vice.com/en/article/43k5db/tulsi-gabbards-stance...) People on /r/politics and other “very online people are not “real voters.” Those are the people who thought Elizabeth Warren was a viable candidate. The real voters are people like my parents who tuned in on Super Tuesday to propel Biden to the nomination.

geofft 5y ago
Several of her positions, taken individually, are solidly left-wing. Not every position she has is solidly left-wing; a few are solidly right-wing, in the sense that they would be completely unsurprising coming from Republican legislators. (Nothing inherently wrong with having positions that people across the aisle would agree with! In fact, I think it's so reasonable to have such positions that I think it's unfair to characterize such positions as "heterodox" or "wasn't reading from some memo everyone else got" - I'd simply call them "centrist" or "bipartisan.") Therefore, "Tulsi Gabbard supports X" is not evidence of "X is a left-wing position," because there are several other positions she supports which are definitely not left-wing, and labeling her as a whole as "solidly left-wing" doesn't make that argument any more true. Maybe the centroid of her positions is left-wing, sure, but she's pretty non-solidly left-wing. That's all.
- rayiner 5y ago
  I said “solidly” not “uniformly.” Most people who are on the left have heterodox views. Gabbard’s are mostly on the left. Also, when I said “heterodox” I don’t mean “bipartisan.” Most people within each party have a mix of views. 90% of Black people vote Democrat but almost half oppose same-sex marriage. About a third of Democrats identify as pro-life. Many oppose abortion after the first trimester and support other restrictions. Plenty of Democrats are pro-second amendment. (Sanders was until recently.) Almost half support the Hyde amendment. Almost half support keeping private insurance. The phenomenon in 2020 with candidates all “reading from the same memo”—adopting a consistent slate of left wing positions—is new and it reflects a minority of actual Democrat voters. Having a mix of views, like Gabbard, makes someone a typical Democrat. And I didn’t say this view was “left wing.” I said it’s not just conservatives, people whose views are mostly right of center, who oppose woke capitalism. Lots of traditional liberals and populist Democrats do as well. The idea that corporations are trustworthy allies in the cause of justice is obviously contentious among Democrats: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/28/opinion/liberals-corporations-woke-capitalism.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/28/opinion/liberals-corporat...