6 ms·

I don't see this happening though. It would seem reasonable to limit the countries seeing the passenger list to those countries that the plane is taking off fro

I don't see this happening though. It would seem reasonable to limit the countries seeing the passenger list to those countries that the plane is taking off from/leaving though.

ReptileMan 5y ago
Except you have the emergency landing possibilities which require cooperation. And after all a country has a right/obligation to know who moves trough its territory.
- baybal2 5y ago
  Imagine, it wasn't the case prior to mid-nineties. International air travel was possible with paper tickets. Heck, you could've travel, immigrate, and settle all around Europe without papers prior to a certain mentally challenged emperor deciding to ruin it all.
  - smegger001 5y ago
    prior to a certain mentally challenged emperor deciding to ruin it all You might have to be more specific there have been more than a few of those in European history
    - dunnevens 5y ago
      Wilhelm II would be my guess. He would fit the bill. Though, as you said, many others would too.
    - ric2b 5y ago
      Probably talking about the Saudis, who were allegedly behind 9/11?
  - Cullinet 5y ago
    a close friend of mine who settled in the UK after he only survived the war by fluke being Polish Danzig born but with a step uncle a unfortunate gauleiter (he was on the run one way or another consequently) still to this day hurriedly produces his German Police certificate of good conduct and freedom from trouble with the law, despite being here because he spied for us he cannot be persuaded that any of the 3rd reich or subsequently 4 powers or West German authorities hold any less power over his individual freedoms and liberties and right of abode and living, not one smallest bit less in all that time. And I believe my friend is perfectly correct to think that this is the case.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - watwut 5y ago
    > Heck, you could've travel, immigrate, and settle all around Europe without papers prior to a certain mentally challenged emperor deciding to ruin it all. I would really like to know when exactly was that.
    - MomoXenosaga 5y ago
      My family are descendants of a gypsy from Romania who walked here in the late 19th century. He found a local wife.
      - watwut 5y ago
        That does not imply that anyone "could travel, immigrate, and settle all around Europe without papers" at the same time. Wherever I look, I am finding various requirements for documentation, permission and restrictions. They might be more or less strict, but I did not succeeded in finding period where whole Europe would allowed you to move and settle freely without some of that. And even less the part "prior to a certain mentally challenged emperor deciding to ruin it all" where I really dont know who the original person means.
Cullinet 5y ago
I doubt that the pilot or copilot could have done this themselves, but I would be very surprised if they never asked their corporate control operating command to explain and establish what exactly was going on and whether they're going to be compelled to comply with the Belorussian diversions request... assuming that the escort fighter jets didn't simultaneously arrive on their wings to punctuate the "request" effectively. Can anyone with FAA / CAA (the UK civil aviation authority) or EU airspace rules knowledge clarify what protocols exist for these situations?
- mike_d 5y ago
  The generally accepted worldwide rule is that airspace is owned by the country under it. You actually pay overflight fees for use of a countries airspace and are subject to its air traffic control. The corporate response will always be "don't get shot down." In the US and most everywhere else, when you willfully ignore ATC they scramble fighter jets. Every pilot is trained in what this looks like and how to respond, but the safe next step is always to respond in the affirmative and land. https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/regulations/inflight-interception-procedures-for-pilots/ https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/regulations/inflight...
  - bombcar 5y ago
    Note that many VFR flights are NOT under direct ATC control (though requesting flight following is always recommended) so unless you appear to be flying erratically or otherwise attract attention you may not even be noticed - it’s standard to send an interceptor if they have reason to believe your radio is inoperable and they need to get in contact (there are established intercept/no-contact procedures). In reality it is highly unlikely for a commercial airline to ignore a direct ATC command (unless the pilot believes the plane is in distress) - and in a case like this where ATC reports a hazard onboard and divert it wouldn’t be unexpected to see an escort (even if just so that there is a witness if the plane were to actually explode). After 9-11 the chance that the interceptors are armed is probably 100%. Fun fact: the max speed of a normal GA plane (think Cessna) is below the stall speed of many interceptors which can result in amusement.
bayesian_horse 5y ago
It's reasonable for the country owning the airspace to know who is on the plane. There are such things as emergency landings. And most countries will probably just refuse overflight privileges if they don't get that information.

I don't see this happening though. It would seem reasonable to limit the countries seeing the passenger list to those countries that the plane is taking off from/leaving though.

ReptileMan 5y ago

Except you have the emergency landing possibilities which require cooperation. And after all a country has a right/obligation to know who moves trough its territory.

baybal2 5y ago
Imagine, it wasn't the case prior to mid-nineties. International air travel was possible with paper tickets. Heck, you could've travel, immigrate, and settle all around Europe without papers prior to a certain mentally challenged emperor deciding to ruin it all.
- smegger001 5y ago
  prior to a certain mentally challenged emperor deciding to ruin it all You might have to be more specific there have been more than a few of those in European history
  - dunnevens 5y ago
    Wilhelm II would be my guess. He would fit the bill. Though, as you said, many others would too.
  - ric2b 5y ago
    Probably talking about the Saudis, who were allegedly behind 9/11?
- Cullinet 5y ago
  a close friend of mine who settled in the UK after he only survived the war by fluke being Polish Danzig born but with a step uncle a unfortunate gauleiter (he was on the run one way or another consequently) still to this day hurriedly produces his German Police certificate of good conduct and freedom from trouble with the law, despite being here because he spied for us he cannot be persuaded that any of the 3rd reich or subsequently 4 powers or West German authorities hold any less power over his individual freedoms and liberties and right of abode and living, not one smallest bit less in all that time. And I believe my friend is perfectly correct to think that this is the case.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- watwut 5y ago
  > Heck, you could've travel, immigrate, and settle all around Europe without papers prior to a certain mentally challenged emperor deciding to ruin it all. I would really like to know when exactly was that.
  - MomoXenosaga 5y ago
    My family are descendants of a gypsy from Romania who walked here in the late 19th century. He found a local wife.
    - watwut 5y ago
      That does not imply that anyone "could travel, immigrate, and settle all around Europe without papers" at the same time. Wherever I look, I am finding various requirements for documentation, permission and restrictions. They might be more or less strict, but I did not succeeded in finding period where whole Europe would allowed you to move and settle freely without some of that. And even less the part "prior to a certain mentally challenged emperor deciding to ruin it all" where I really dont know who the original person means.

Cullinet 5y ago

I doubt that the pilot or copilot could have done this themselves, but I would be very surprised if they never asked their corporate control operating command to explain and establish what exactly was going on and whether they're going to be compelled to comply with the Belorussian diversions request... assuming that the escort fighter jets didn't simultaneously arrive on their wings to punctuate the "request" effectively. Can anyone with FAA / CAA (the UK civil aviation authority) or EU airspace rules knowledge clarify what protocols exist for these situations?

mike_d 5y ago
The generally accepted worldwide rule is that airspace is owned by the country under it. You actually pay overflight fees for use of a countries airspace and are subject to its air traffic control. The corporate response will always be "don't get shot down." In the US and most everywhere else, when you willfully ignore ATC they scramble fighter jets. Every pilot is trained in what this looks like and how to respond, but the safe next step is always to respond in the affirmative and land. https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/regulations/inflight-interception-procedures-for-pilots/ https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/regulations/inflight...
- bombcar 5y ago
  Note that many VFR flights are NOT under direct ATC control (though requesting flight following is always recommended) so unless you appear to be flying erratically or otherwise attract attention you may not even be noticed - it’s standard to send an interceptor if they have reason to believe your radio is inoperable and they need to get in contact (there are established intercept/no-contact procedures). In reality it is highly unlikely for a commercial airline to ignore a direct ATC command (unless the pilot believes the plane is in distress) - and in a case like this where ATC reports a hazard onboard and divert it wouldn’t be unexpected to see an escort (even if just so that there is a witness if the plane were to actually explode). After 9-11 the chance that the interceptors are armed is probably 100%. Fun fact: the max speed of a normal GA plane (think Cessna) is below the stall speed of many interceptors which can result in amusement.

bayesian_horse 5y ago

It's reasonable for the country owning the airspace to know who is on the plane. There are such things as emergency landings. And most countries will probably just refuse overflight privileges if they don't get that information.