3 ms·

> -12v, -5v What prevents one from just wiring mobo.5v to port.gnd and mobo.gnd to port.-5v? That would effectively create a -5v potential between port.gnd and

> -12v, -5v What prevents one from just wiring mobo.5v to port.gnd and mobo.gnd to port.-5v? That would effectively create a -5v potential between port.gnd and port.-5v

formerly_proven 5y ago
-12 V was used for RS-232, which uses +12 V and -12 V levels (with a very wide tolerance band). Having a separate supply for this was a design decision which was pretty much instantly obsolete with integrated charge pumps: All RS-232 outputs are running off of charge pumps running at (-2) and (+2) ratios, so +-10 V levels with a 5 V supply. I don't know what -5 V was used for. Maybe some analog circuits somewhere, very early MOS logic also often had awkward supply voltages (charge-pumps made this obsolete too, just like high-voltage supplies for EEPROMs).
- kens 5y ago
  Early DRAM chips like the MK4116 required -5 V, +5 V, and +12 V. (-5 was the substrate back bias for the chip.) So the ISA standard required -12 V, -5 V, +5 V, and +12 V.
- toast0 5y ago
  -5v was often used in sound cards for audio amps, I believe. I've got an arcade machine with an AT supply that uses -5v for the audio amp anyway.
- SomeHacker44 5y ago
  I have a number of 80s and early 90s computers. They had some circuits that used ECL, which required a negative voltage. One I had to recently adjust had a power supply that outputted (when properly adjusted) +5V and -5.2V.
dmytroi 5y ago
That would create a floating ground, and systems needs to be designed for it. Because likely motherboard ground is connected to chassis, and it connected to earth, while power supply most likely have it's own ground connected to earth.
101_101 5y ago
You just shorted the 5V rail. most PSUs will just turn off their output/shuts itself down.
exporectomy 5y ago
Then you'd also need a +10V supply for the port's +5V input, and to convert logical levels for communication between them. That would be trickier than just amplifying them because low/high of 0V/5V would become 5V/10V. Constant voltage offsets are generally a real pain.
magicalhippo 5y ago
If there's no other connections to the device, then sure you could do that. However usually there is. For example, the device might need +5V or +3.3V as well. Well you can't supply +5V and PSU ground as separate leads, because almost always multiple ground connections are internally connected in a device. Thus that would mean the +5V rail gets shorted to (PSU) ground by the device.

> -12v, -5v What prevents one from just wiring mobo.5v to port.gnd and mobo.gnd to port.-5v? That would effectively create a -5v potential between port.gnd and port.-5v

formerly_proven 5y ago

-12 V was used for RS-232, which uses +12 V and -12 V levels (with a very wide tolerance band). Having a separate supply for this was a design decision which was pretty much instantly obsolete with integrated charge pumps: All RS-232 outputs are running off of charge pumps running at (-2) and (+2) ratios, so +-10 V levels with a 5 V supply. I don't know what -5 V was used for. Maybe some analog circuits somewhere, very early MOS logic also often had awkward supply voltages (charge-pumps made this obsolete too, just like high-voltage supplies for EEPROMs).

kens 5y ago
Early DRAM chips like the MK4116 required -5 V, +5 V, and +12 V. (-5 was the substrate back bias for the chip.) So the ISA standard required -12 V, -5 V, +5 V, and +12 V.
toast0 5y ago
-5v was often used in sound cards for audio amps, I believe. I've got an arcade machine with an AT supply that uses -5v for the audio amp anyway.
SomeHacker44 5y ago
I have a number of 80s and early 90s computers. They had some circuits that used ECL, which required a negative voltage. One I had to recently adjust had a power supply that outputted (when properly adjusted) +5V and -5.2V.

dmytroi 5y ago

That would create a floating ground, and systems needs to be designed for it. Because likely motherboard ground is connected to chassis, and it connected to earth, while power supply most likely have it's own ground connected to earth.

101_101 5y ago

You just shorted the 5V rail. most PSUs will just turn off their output/shuts itself down.

exporectomy 5y ago

Then you'd also need a +10V supply for the port's +5V input, and to convert logical levels for communication between them. That would be trickier than just amplifying them because low/high of 0V/5V would become 5V/10V. Constant voltage offsets are generally a real pain.

magicalhippo 5y ago

If there's no other connections to the device, then sure you could do that. However usually there is. For example, the device might need +5V or +3.3V as well. Well you can't supply +5V and PSU ground as separate leads, because almost always multiple ground connections are internally connected in a device. Thus that would mean the +5V rail gets shorted to (PSU) ground by the device.