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> The demoscene is an underground computer art culture I've seen A LOT of posts of demoscene here on HN through the years so what does "underground" means in t

> The demoscene is an underground computer art culture I've seen A LOT of posts of demoscene here on HN through the years so what does "underground" means in this context? Genuinely curious.

xvedejas 5y ago
Not mainstream; it's a niche hobby. Most people have never heard of it, and you won't encounter anyone on the street chatting about the latest demoscene developments. You won't find TV shows about it nor regional clubs dedicated to it. While it is an art, no artist makes their living doing it. It's also not the most accessible since there's some technical skill required.
- userbinator 5y ago
  That said, in northern Europe and post-Soviet countries it's a lot more prevalent than elsewhere.
- Beldin 5y ago
  > since there's some technical skill required. That's the understatement of the year. Check out - 2nd Reality: at a time when Doom-style graphics were awesome - 8088MHz: getting 1024 colours out of a CGA adapter (which is made to output 4 colours) - 1K (or was it 64K?) demos that involve flying over procedurally generated (close to) photorealistic landscapes The demo scene pushes the brink of what's technically possible. Or just ignores it and goes way beyond what everyone thought possible.
  - GuB-42 5y ago
    For the 3rd one, you are probably thinking about "Elevated", which is 4k http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=52938 http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=52938 There are others but it is the most famous and it was revolutionary when it came out. I think what GP means is that even a "compofiller", a demo that is not expected to win any prize requires some technical skill.
Sharlin 5y ago
Presumably it just means "not mainstream". Which is certainly true. Because demoscene is exemplar of the "hacker mindset", it's no wonder it tends to feature on HN. But HN is not exactly mainstream either.
whatever_dude 5y ago
I suppose nowadays it means "not mainstream" as many have pointed out, but historically many of these computer scenes have been called part of an "underground" simply because they're part of something illegal. The demoscene itself was born out of the warez scene, as its sole purpose was to advertise pirated software distribution groups. It branched out fast, but those scenes have always been heavily linked together.
Jiocus 5y ago
“The mainstream comes to you, but you have to go to the underground.” - Frank Zappa

> The demoscene is an underground computer art culture I've seen A LOT of posts of demoscene here on HN through the years so what does "underground" means in this context? Genuinely curious.

xvedejas 5y ago

Not mainstream; it's a niche hobby. Most people have never heard of it, and you won't encounter anyone on the street chatting about the latest demoscene developments. You won't find TV shows about it nor regional clubs dedicated to it. While it is an art, no artist makes their living doing it. It's also not the most accessible since there's some technical skill required.

userbinator 5y ago
That said, in northern Europe and post-Soviet countries it's a lot more prevalent than elsewhere.
Beldin 5y ago
> since there's some technical skill required. That's the understatement of the year. Check out - 2nd Reality: at a time when Doom-style graphics were awesome - 8088MHz: getting 1024 colours out of a CGA adapter (which is made to output 4 colours) - 1K (or was it 64K?) demos that involve flying over procedurally generated (close to) photorealistic landscapes The demo scene pushes the brink of what's technically possible. Or just ignores it and goes way beyond what everyone thought possible.
- GuB-42 5y ago
  For the 3rd one, you are probably thinking about "Elevated", which is 4k http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=52938 http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=52938 There are others but it is the most famous and it was revolutionary when it came out. I think what GP means is that even a "compofiller", a demo that is not expected to win any prize requires some technical skill.

Sharlin 5y ago

Presumably it just means "not mainstream". Which is certainly true. Because demoscene is exemplar of the "hacker mindset", it's no wonder it tends to feature on HN. But HN is not exactly mainstream either.

whatever_dude 5y ago

I suppose nowadays it means "not mainstream" as many have pointed out, but historically many of these computer scenes have been called part of an "underground" simply because they're part of something illegal. The demoscene itself was born out of the warez scene, as its sole purpose was to advertise pirated software distribution groups. It branched out fast, but those scenes have always been heavily linked together.

Jiocus 5y ago

“The mainstream comes to you, but you have to go to the underground.” - Frank Zappa