4 ms·

Epic is a great example. Their own store lists alternative stores on the Epic store, like itch.io. But they don't take a cut of games bought from those stores.

Epic is a great example. Their own store lists alternative stores on the Epic store, like itch.io. But they don't take a cut of games bought from those stores. Once you launch itch, you're in itch.

dijit 5y ago
Steam is a better example as Epic is operating at a loss position to disrupt the incumbent.
- verall 5y ago
  My friends and I play Apex through Steam, which I downloaded for free. When you click to purchase "Apex coins", it takes you straight to EA's website. Apple wants to enforce a cut on every purchase of in-game currency. Steam does not do this. And Valve allows you to sell steam keys on your own website also without paying the cut, so long as you don't undercut the steam store.
  - ninjinxo 5y ago
    Steam does take a cut for microtransactions, very likely force price parity, and put the developers under NDAs: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1ogbo7/will_money_from_steam_wallet_be_eligible_for/#ccs0a41 https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1ogbo7/will_mo...
    - verall 5y ago
      They take a cut for microtransactions that they process, but you are free to use your own service. They do require price parity. That link doesn't seem related at all.
      - ninjinxo 5y ago
        >you are free to use your own service Do you have any sources on how restrictive valve are or have been with that, or is that just speculation? Can developers default to their own payment systems and bypass valve's, or is theirs required to take a secondary, less-accessible option (when it's even allowed)? From the same thread, the mtx cut taken was a dealbreaker for redfall studios, so it certainly sounds like they didnt get the option for their own mtx transaction service: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1ogbo7/will_money_from_steam_wallet_be_eligible_for/ccsoq3a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1ogbo7/will_mo... If the direct links to comments aren't working, try logging into your reddit account.
notafraudster 5y ago
This would be true if they listed "alternative store_s_", but what they actually did is add itch.io to their store in a token way once they started the lawsuit in order to say "Look, we have no problem working with other stores". It's a stunt for the lawsuit. Even the Itch founder who signed the deal said they basically found it bemusing and an effort to gain legal leverage without really doing anything else. It'd be like if Apple took all of the developers who testified against Apple, reduced their commission to 0% in perpetuity, and then asked the judge to throw out their testimony because the complaints were moot. (That being said, I do think there are conditions where stores would/should allow other stores, and I think those conditions could be more permissive than the Roblox example. Apple should, medium term, resolve the GeForce Now/XCloud objections.)
- orisho 5y ago
  I bought The Division 2 after seeing a promotion on the Epic store. To install it, you have to install the Ubisoft store Uplay, which is launched through an integration with the Epic store. After playing that game, I saw promotions for Assassin's Creed Odyssey on Uplay, and purchased it. I later went on to purchase many other games on Uplay. In short, Epic allows Ubisoft to sell games on its store, for which they presumably pay a cut - for those sales. But Epic has no problems letting Ubisoft require their store be installed for those games, and if you buy something there - even though the Epic Launcher installed it - they don't get a cut. This is more akin to the App Store installing Fortnite - which Apple could get a cut out of, but not getting a cut for purchases in the app.
  - notafraudster 5y ago
    Both Apple and Valve (Steam) allow similar arrangements, although not precisely the same. EA games on Steam, and Ubisoft games on Steam before they left Steam, require installing Origin and UPlay respectively. But don't you find it notable that Epic does not distribute Uplay on its own, unbundled from purchases? On the Apple side, it's ok for applications to require the user make an account on services like Uplay (I believe several Ubisoft games require this; and Fortnite requires the Epic equivalent). You can then use that account to buy stuff on the stores. It's not an exact parallel because there are no (non-jailbreak) external app stores on the iPhone, but it's a close parallel.

Epic is a great example. Their own store lists alternative stores on the Epic store, like itch.io. But they don't take a cut of games bought from those stores. Once you launch itch, you're in itch.

dijit 5y ago

Steam is a better example as Epic is operating at a loss position to disrupt the incumbent.

verall 5y ago
My friends and I play Apex through Steam, which I downloaded for free. When you click to purchase "Apex coins", it takes you straight to EA's website. Apple wants to enforce a cut on every purchase of in-game currency. Steam does not do this. And Valve allows you to sell steam keys on your own website also without paying the cut, so long as you don't undercut the steam store.
- ninjinxo 5y ago
  Steam does take a cut for microtransactions, very likely force price parity, and put the developers under NDAs: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1ogbo7/will_money_from_steam_wallet_be_eligible_for/#ccs0a41 https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1ogbo7/will_mo...
  - verall 5y ago
    They take a cut for microtransactions that they process, but you are free to use your own service. They do require price parity. That link doesn't seem related at all.
    - ninjinxo 5y ago
      >you are free to use your own service Do you have any sources on how restrictive valve are or have been with that, or is that just speculation? Can developers default to their own payment systems and bypass valve's, or is theirs required to take a secondary, less-accessible option (when it's even allowed)? From the same thread, the mtx cut taken was a dealbreaker for redfall studios, so it certainly sounds like they didnt get the option for their own mtx transaction service: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1ogbo7/will_money_from_steam_wallet_be_eligible_for/ccsoq3a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1ogbo7/will_mo... If the direct links to comments aren't working, try logging into your reddit account.

notafraudster 5y ago

This would be true if they listed "alternative store_s_", but what they actually did is add itch.io to their store in a token way once they started the lawsuit in order to say "Look, we have no problem working with other stores". It's a stunt for the lawsuit. Even the Itch founder who signed the deal said they basically found it bemusing and an effort to gain legal leverage without really doing anything else. It'd be like if Apple took all of the developers who testified against Apple, reduced their commission to 0% in perpetuity, and then asked the judge to throw out their testimony because the complaints were moot. (That being said, I do think there are conditions where stores would/should allow other stores, and I think those conditions could be more permissive than the Roblox example. Apple should, medium term, resolve the GeForce Now/XCloud objections.)

orisho 5y ago
I bought The Division 2 after seeing a promotion on the Epic store. To install it, you have to install the Ubisoft store Uplay, which is launched through an integration with the Epic store. After playing that game, I saw promotions for Assassin's Creed Odyssey on Uplay, and purchased it. I later went on to purchase many other games on Uplay. In short, Epic allows Ubisoft to sell games on its store, for which they presumably pay a cut - for those sales. But Epic has no problems letting Ubisoft require their store be installed for those games, and if you buy something there - even though the Epic Launcher installed it - they don't get a cut. This is more akin to the App Store installing Fortnite - which Apple could get a cut out of, but not getting a cut for purchases in the app.
- notafraudster 5y ago
  Both Apple and Valve (Steam) allow similar arrangements, although not precisely the same. EA games on Steam, and Ubisoft games on Steam before they left Steam, require installing Origin and UPlay respectively. But don't you find it notable that Epic does not distribute Uplay on its own, unbundled from purchases? On the Apple side, it's ok for applications to require the user make an account on services like Uplay (I believe several Ubisoft games require this; and Fortnite requires the Epic equivalent). You can then use that account to buy stuff on the stores. It's not an exact parallel because there are no (non-jailbreak) external app stores on the iPhone, but it's a close parallel.