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You and the parent you are replying to are right - pro clubs know the ins and outs of penalties and select and train players (keepers and takers) accordingly.

You and the parent you are replying to are right - pro clubs know the ins and outs of penalties and select and train players (keepers and takers) accordingly. You are being distracted from the meat and bones of the argument though - the whole premise that most penalties are poorly taken is blatantly wrong. Most penalties end up in goals - which is how it's intended to be.

canuckintime 5y ago
By poorly taken, I mean aesthetics not effectiveness. See here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27256085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27256085
daleharvey 5y ago
If the goals were smaller and most penalties did not result in goal that would not mean they are poorly taken. These people are obviously the best in the world at what they do, they are picked specifically and paid generously in order to be able to kick a ball into a net. Discussing casually how they could improve without any apparent indepth knowledge is a level of hubris that hackers news is known for breeding.
- arcturus17 5y ago
  > If the goals were smaller and most penalties did not result in goal Then they arguably wouldn't be penalties. But there's no need to argue with me, I've been watching football for some odd 30 years and playing for a good subset of that. It has never occurred to me that penalties are taken poorly at the pro level - I've seen absolute dross at the amateur level, but I concur that most pro penalty takers are phenomenal, both from a statistical and aesthetical perspective. Not that I think there is that much value in the latter - by design, a penalty kick is the most aesthetically boring of all set pieces. A penalty kick ensues higher emotions due to the odds at play, but from a purely aesthetical point of view, I'd argue that even a corner kick has a much higher potential (a volley, a bicycle kick, a header, a fine-tuned "chess play" that cracks the defense open, etc.) And a penalty kick doesn't compare to the myriad other open plays in football which have infinitely more aesthetic appeal. A penalty kick is about creating a certain balance of odds, simple as. Every other consideration is secondary.
hogFeast 5y ago
Yes, goal frequency is 75-85% in professional play. Amazing but it shows how much skill takers have (players like Baines, Henry, and more recently Fernandes are over 90%...which is just crazy).

canuckintime 5y ago

By poorly taken, I mean aesthetics not effectiveness. See here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27256085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27256085

daleharvey 5y ago

If the goals were smaller and most penalties did not result in goal that would not mean they are poorly taken. These people are obviously the best in the world at what they do, they are picked specifically and paid generously in order to be able to kick a ball into a net. Discussing casually how they could improve without any apparent indepth knowledge is a level of hubris that hackers news is known for breeding.

arcturus17 5y ago
> If the goals were smaller and most penalties did not result in goal Then they arguably wouldn't be penalties. But there's no need to argue with me, I've been watching football for some odd 30 years and playing for a good subset of that. It has never occurred to me that penalties are taken poorly at the pro level - I've seen absolute dross at the amateur level, but I concur that most pro penalty takers are phenomenal, both from a statistical and aesthetical perspective. Not that I think there is that much value in the latter - by design, a penalty kick is the most aesthetically boring of all set pieces. A penalty kick ensues higher emotions due to the odds at play, but from a purely aesthetical point of view, I'd argue that even a corner kick has a much higher potential (a volley, a bicycle kick, a header, a fine-tuned "chess play" that cracks the defense open, etc.) And a penalty kick doesn't compare to the myriad other open plays in football which have infinitely more aesthetic appeal. A penalty kick is about creating a certain balance of odds, simple as. Every other consideration is secondary.

hogFeast 5y ago

Yes, goal frequency is 75-85% in professional play. Amazing but it shows how much skill takers have (players like Baines, Henry, and more recently Fernandes are over 90%...which is just crazy).