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Yes. Google's strategy is simple: 1. The web should be able to control everything (i.e. PWA features not normally found in a browser). 2. Google should contr

by slver 5y ago

Yes. Google's strategy is simple: 1. The web should be able to control everything (i.e. PWA features not normally found in a browser). 2. Google should control the web (they can index it, track, monetize it, but it has to be on the web). 3. Profit. Do you think Apple users are super excited at the prospect of most apps turning into battery-draining non-native shitty experiences, instead of using the iOS frameworks? No, they're not. And push notifications on iOS work as a service, to avoid battery drain, they all go through Apple on a single connection. This is free for all native apps. It can't be implemented for web apps both for technical reasons and because web apps can't be curated, so it'll just be abused like there's no tomorrow. Have you noticed on the desktop that EVERY SITE asks you for push notifications? This is super annoying and bless your soul if you ever clicked "YES" on any of those. They'll spam you until you die, or eventually ask your nephew to reset your permissions. EVERY single feature not in Safari, has a reason not to be there. And I'm sick of everyone eating up Google's propaganda and becoming their tools in this. I don't mind Google at all, they should fight for their PoV on all this, and they have a right to expand their business. But not at the expense of Apple or Apple's users. F that.

SheinhardtWigCo 5y ago
Why can I play 3D games in every browser except Safari on iOS? What is the technical reason for that? Have you not noticed that EVERY APP asks for push notifications and uses them as a marketing funnel?
sciprojguy 5y ago
Long-time iOS developer here who does not want cross-platform dreck to become the standard. UIKit and SwiftUI are deep frameworks that let you build really great user experiences (if you're willing to put in the work to learn them), and Apple spends a ton of time and money making sure they can work together and build an iOS app that looks and feels like an iOS app, not someone's crappy "web site in a native wrapper" or "several extra layers of abstraction to hide an API and god help you if you need to debug an API problem" approach.
- slver 5y ago
  I'm honestly glad to see one dev who cares about their craft and not just "I wanna spit some HTML and boom, it's on all phones". HN is mostly frequented by developers, and it's so frustrating to see how many of them are outright lazy and don't think about UX but rather about how to get quickest from point A to point B. Rest assured most phone users are with you all the way. But again, we wouldn't know it reading developer forums.
  - mannerheim 5y ago
    Do most phone users really want to install apps for Reddit, Imgur, etc.?
    - throwaway3699 5y ago
      I think this is a really great point. PWAs are not a threat to native apps - they are a great in-between that adapts to different use cases. Installation, push notifications, etc... are all optional and can be mixed and matched based on what users actually want. An example would be individual forums are a great use case for PWAs.
    - slver 5y ago
      If you visit a site a lot, you want to install an icon for it. If you're willing to install an icon for it, you prefer the quality and speed of a native experience. That's just common sense. Funny enough I couldn't find a decent native app for HN, so I just placed a link to the site in my folder with social apps. That site is the worst thing in that folder.
      - mannerheim 5y ago
        I know a couple people who dislike Reddit's degraded web experience to drive users to their app. I haven't installed the app myself. Maybe it's a minority opinion. But supposedly Reddit has 1.6 billion unique visitors per month, and about 120 million app installs.
doikor 5y ago
> apps turning into battery-draining non-native shitty experiences There is no reason why non-native apps should be a shitty experience that drains the battery. That is just a tooling/feature issue. > Have you noticed on the desktop that EVERY SITE asks you for push notifications? This is super annoying and bless your soul if you ever clicked "YES" on any of those. They'll spam you until you die, or eventually ask your nephew to reset your permissions. The spam for installing the native app is 10x worse when using a mobile browser.

by slver 5y ago

SheinhardtWigCo 5y ago

Why can I play 3D games in every browser except Safari on iOS? What is the technical reason for that? Have you not noticed that EVERY APP asks for push notifications and uses them as a marketing funnel?

sciprojguy 5y ago

Long-time iOS developer here who does not want cross-platform dreck to become the standard. UIKit and SwiftUI are deep frameworks that let you build really great user experiences (if you're willing to put in the work to learn them), and Apple spends a ton of time and money making sure they can work together and build an iOS app that looks and feels like an iOS app, not someone's crappy "web site in a native wrapper" or "several extra layers of abstraction to hide an API and god help you if you need to debug an API problem" approach.

slver 5y ago
I'm honestly glad to see one dev who cares about their craft and not just "I wanna spit some HTML and boom, it's on all phones". HN is mostly frequented by developers, and it's so frustrating to see how many of them are outright lazy and don't think about UX but rather about how to get quickest from point A to point B. Rest assured most phone users are with you all the way. But again, we wouldn't know it reading developer forums.
- mannerheim 5y ago
  Do most phone users really want to install apps for Reddit, Imgur, etc.?
  - throwaway3699 5y ago
    I think this is a really great point. PWAs are not a threat to native apps - they are a great in-between that adapts to different use cases. Installation, push notifications, etc... are all optional and can be mixed and matched based on what users actually want. An example would be individual forums are a great use case for PWAs.
  - slver 5y ago
    If you visit a site a lot, you want to install an icon for it. If you're willing to install an icon for it, you prefer the quality and speed of a native experience. That's just common sense. Funny enough I couldn't find a decent native app for HN, so I just placed a link to the site in my folder with social apps. That site is the worst thing in that folder.
    - mannerheim 5y ago
      I know a couple people who dislike Reddit's degraded web experience to drive users to their app. I haven't installed the app myself. Maybe it's a minority opinion. But supposedly Reddit has 1.6 billion unique visitors per month, and about 120 million app installs.

doikor 5y ago

> apps turning into battery-draining non-native shitty experiences There is no reason why non-native apps should be a shitty experience that drains the battery. That is just a tooling/feature issue. > Have you noticed on the desktop that EVERY SITE asks you for push notifications? This is super annoying and bless your soul if you ever clicked "YES" on any of those. They'll spam you until you die, or eventually ask your nephew to reset your permissions. The spam for installing the native app is 10x worse when using a mobile browser.