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This is why Apple holds back important APIs from their browser, years after they are available in other browsers: fast 3D graphics, offline storage and compute,

This is why Apple holds back important APIs from their browser, years after they are available in other browsers: fast 3D graphics, offline storage and compute, push notifications, to name a few.

coldtea 5y ago
Yes. To avoid the crappification of mobile, where everything it's a bunch of slow, memory and battery draining Electron apps, doing whatever they want, each with custom UI...
- ubercow13 5y ago
  How is that not what exists? Aren't many apps based on web technologies, and/or have custom UIs? There's little standardisation even among 'real' native apps.
  - coldtea 5y ago
    >How is that not what exists? Aren't many apps based on web technologies, and/or have custom UIs? Yes, but (a) some, as opposed to all which is the dream of the pro web-app camp. (b) forbidding custom JS and web engines helps keep this low (c) even the crappy mobile-webview apps at least have to be wrapped in an app container, be installable and uninstallable the same way, be notarized, use the same payment system with central control, and be tied to the same policies (e.g. regarding privacy, notifications, use of apis) as native mobile apps
- mhh__ 5y ago
  Definitely that and not to avoid the potential for circumventing their lock-in. If Apple were that obsessed with performance, their LLVM backends wouldn't be closed source.
criddell 5y ago
I might buy into that theory if they didn't have Apple Pay in the browser.
- TheCoelacanth 5y ago
  You mean the feature that lets them take a cut of every transaction that goes through it?
  - criddell 5y ago
    Yes, the feature that massively reduces friction for paying for things on the web for which Apple collects about 1/200th the fee that they do when you buy in their store. If you are a web app developer who wants users to pay you, Apple Pay is awesome in that it takes away a lot of friction.
sidlls 5y ago
Good. The "browser is a mini-OS" metaphor has proven to be an absolutely terrible experience for both developers and end-users. Time to find another way.
- mthoms 5y ago
  Let the market decide? If it's so obviously terrible it will fail.
  - sidlls 5y ago
    Like with cigarettes.
    - mthoms 5y ago
      Please don't make unsubstantial comments on HN. You're not being as clever as you think you are. Edit: The context of my pro-free-market comment is app stores. Of course it's not absolute. You very well know this. Please don't argue in bad faith.
      - sidlls 5y ago
        The comment was not unsubstantial, nor was it “clever” in the way you suggest was attempted. Cigarettes were quite a popular market driven product for literally decades. The point being, obviously, that “the market decides” isn’t necessarily a good way to determine or identify quality, or what consumers actually want or need.
        mthoms 5y ago
        The "what about cigarettes?" argument would be relevant if one of the market participants in this scenario was literally killing people (or otherwise harming society in some way). An honest reader would not interpret my pro-free-market comment as being 100% absolute in any and all circumstances. An honest reader would consider the context. You're not arguing in good faith. Try again?
Torwald 5y ago
Apple also holds this sort of features back on their browser on the open desktop platform (macOS). Judging from that I'd say there must be another reason.
- cglong 5y ago
  Safari for macOS has push notifications, arguably the most important component of PWAs.

This is why Apple holds back important APIs from their browser, years after they are available in other browsers: fast 3D graphics, offline storage and compute, push notifications, to name a few.

coldtea 5y ago

Yes. To avoid the crappification of mobile, where everything it's a bunch of slow, memory and battery draining Electron apps, doing whatever they want, each with custom UI...

ubercow13 5y ago
How is that not what exists? Aren't many apps based on web technologies, and/or have custom UIs? There's little standardisation even among 'real' native apps.
- coldtea 5y ago
  >How is that not what exists? Aren't many apps based on web technologies, and/or have custom UIs? Yes, but (a) some, as opposed to all which is the dream of the pro web-app camp. (b) forbidding custom JS and web engines helps keep this low (c) even the crappy mobile-webview apps at least have to be wrapped in an app container, be installable and uninstallable the same way, be notarized, use the same payment system with central control, and be tied to the same policies (e.g. regarding privacy, notifications, use of apis) as native mobile apps
mhh__ 5y ago
Definitely that and not to avoid the potential for circumventing their lock-in. If Apple were that obsessed with performance, their LLVM backends wouldn't be closed source.

criddell 5y ago

I might buy into that theory if they didn't have Apple Pay in the browser.

TheCoelacanth 5y ago
You mean the feature that lets them take a cut of every transaction that goes through it?
- criddell 5y ago
  Yes, the feature that massively reduces friction for paying for things on the web for which Apple collects about 1/200th the fee that they do when you buy in their store. If you are a web app developer who wants users to pay you, Apple Pay is awesome in that it takes away a lot of friction.

sidlls 5y ago

Good. The "browser is a mini-OS" metaphor has proven to be an absolutely terrible experience for both developers and end-users. Time to find another way.

mthoms 5y ago
Let the market decide? If it's so obviously terrible it will fail.
- sidlls 5y ago
  Like with cigarettes.
  - mthoms 5y ago
    Please don't make unsubstantial comments on HN. You're not being as clever as you think you are. Edit: The context of my pro-free-market comment is app stores. Of course it's not absolute. You very well know this. Please don't argue in bad faith.
    - sidlls 5y ago
      The comment was not unsubstantial, nor was it “clever” in the way you suggest was attempted. Cigarettes were quite a popular market driven product for literally decades. The point being, obviously, that “the market decides” isn’t necessarily a good way to determine or identify quality, or what consumers actually want or need.
      - mthoms 5y ago
        The "what about cigarettes?" argument would be relevant if one of the market participants in this scenario was literally killing people (or otherwise harming society in some way). An honest reader would not interpret my pro-free-market comment as being 100% absolute in any and all circumstances. An honest reader would consider the context. You're not arguing in good faith. Try again?

Torwald 5y ago

Apple also holds this sort of features back on their browser on the open desktop platform (macOS). Judging from that I'd say there must be another reason.

cglong 5y ago
Safari for macOS has push notifications, arguably the most important component of PWAs.