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That is insulting to all the billions of people trampled under the boot of capitalism throughout history. Capitalism is synonymous with imperialism. From its be

That is insulting to all the billions of people trampled under the boot of capitalism throughout history. Capitalism is synonymous with imperialism. From its beginnings with colonial companies it is an ideology of violence and destruction of the many for the benefit of the few. Yes, I'm glad you live at the top of the pyramid in a comfortable American existence (a lifestyle which if everybody on the planet led we'd already be extinct), but don't forget the billions who aren't reaping those benefits.

JoeAltmaier 5y ago
Did you time travel from the 1800's? The standard of living of nearly everyone on the planet is light-years ahead of "trampled". Food, water, energy are thriving and growing. Life expectancies are stabilizing and the majority of everyone on earth is living better. We owe it all to capitalism and the free market. Quoting old ideologies is getting wearying. From screeds about 'labor' (its becoming extinct; what about Marxism then?) to imperialism (the majority of countries in the world are democracies) to blaming the rich for success.
- andrepd 5y ago
  I disagree. The standard of living increases are attributable to one thing only: the progress of science and technology. Nothing else. We have achieved better living standards over the years despite capitalism, not because of it. Meanwhile inequality grows, democracies are backsliding across the globe, and inexhaustible "growth capitalism" has us facing a climate crisis which it continues to refuse to tackle. Inequality of wealth and income means necessities such as housing are ever more expensive, pushing ever more people into virtual "debt bondage" towards the landed class. Inequality of wealth also means inequality of opportunities, as the rich are afforded endless cheap credit and the poor cannot afford homes and cannot afford to start businesses. But all that's okay, because we get 1001 new models of phones every year and TVs are cheaper than ever. This is my opinion of course. > Quoting old ideologies The myth that Marxism is "old and irrelevant" is what's getting wearing :) On the contrary, it's frightening how relevant it still is, and how much Marxist criticism and analysis applies to 21st century capitalism. Read his major points (and not just what other people tell you his major points are) and you'll be surprised. > labour becoming extinct I don't get it. > most countries in the world are beautiful democracies There's only really one country in the world, as far as I'm aware, that truly deserves the label "democracy", and that's Switzerland, with high levels of political participation, a free press, well-functioning institutions, etc. Maybe the autonomous municipalities in Chiapas too :) All the rest are the bare minimum to keep the people from rebelling. > imperialism Imperialism is a major feature of global capitalism. Quick example: the market logic (a weasel-word for violent coercion by powerful countries) dictates that Ethiopia faces famines at the same time that it exports massive amounts of food.
  - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
    Labor is becoming extinct because, automation. Everybody sees the 'working class' dropping down from technical work to office work to road work or point-of-sale (flipping burgers). It employment sure, but now point-of-sale is being automated away. What then? America has 30M in fast-food. They can't all be retrained as Engineers, and even if they could we don't need 30M more Engineers. What happens to Marxism when the workers can't own the means of production, because there aren't any workers in the plant? That's already true in many, many operations. Automation has been explosive in the last 20 years. Production is off-shore when Chinese hand-work is cheaper then retooling for automation. When a factory 'comes back' from overseas, its because volume has increased to the point its effective to automate. No jobs come back (ok 2 or 3 automation Engineers but not 100 workers). Today America's largest buyer of automation equipment is ... China. They're 20 years behind us but catching up fast. Imagine another Billion workers put out of a job. The writing is on the wall. Workers are going to be irrelevant, and not that far in the future. Going on about what the workers are owed is going to be moot. Fast becoming so. What works then? Not capitalism, I admit, because owning a factory that produces goods quits returning profit when there's few that have the money to buy the goods. The whole system is circling the drain. But no just keep on about Marxism or workers rights or whatever, irrespective of how that group is dwindling and will soon be gone and the world is no longer an 1800's industrial society. Oh and that mark about "No True Democracies" is an old, old, tired trope called "No True Scotsman". There's no point in addressing that at all.
    - andrepd 5y ago
      1. There are about 3,000,000,000 people in employment in the world, with 200 million (about 6% of the former) able to work but unemployed. It's ridiculous — and frankly reeking of inane SV bubble/echo chamber — that you make the absurd claim that "labour is a thing of the past". Plus dismissing concern about exploitation as being "workers rights or whatever". 2. Socialism is (broadly speaking) about social ownership of capital / means of production. Corporations being worker-owned is only one way of implementing a fairer and more efficient ownership model. In a future hypothetical world with replicators, post-scarcity and post-labour, if it ever comes, socialism will only become more of a necessity. Everybody will have to own a stake in the replicators, the mechanism of private and absolute control over capital will be absurd.

JoeAltmaier 5y ago

Did you time travel from the 1800's? The standard of living of nearly everyone on the planet is light-years ahead of "trampled". Food, water, energy are thriving and growing. Life expectancies are stabilizing and the majority of everyone on earth is living better. We owe it all to capitalism and the free market. Quoting old ideologies is getting wearying. From screeds about 'labor' (its becoming extinct; what about Marxism then?) to imperialism (the majority of countries in the world are democracies) to blaming the rich for success.

andrepd 5y ago
I disagree. The standard of living increases are attributable to one thing only: the progress of science and technology. Nothing else. We have achieved better living standards over the years despite capitalism, not because of it. Meanwhile inequality grows, democracies are backsliding across the globe, and inexhaustible "growth capitalism" has us facing a climate crisis which it continues to refuse to tackle. Inequality of wealth and income means necessities such as housing are ever more expensive, pushing ever more people into virtual "debt bondage" towards the landed class. Inequality of wealth also means inequality of opportunities, as the rich are afforded endless cheap credit and the poor cannot afford homes and cannot afford to start businesses. But all that's okay, because we get 1001 new models of phones every year and TVs are cheaper than ever. This is my opinion of course. > Quoting old ideologies The myth that Marxism is "old and irrelevant" is what's getting wearing :) On the contrary, it's frightening how relevant it still is, and how much Marxist criticism and analysis applies to 21st century capitalism. Read his major points (and not just what other people tell you his major points are) and you'll be surprised. > labour becoming extinct I don't get it. > most countries in the world are beautiful democracies There's only really one country in the world, as far as I'm aware, that truly deserves the label "democracy", and that's Switzerland, with high levels of political participation, a free press, well-functioning institutions, etc. Maybe the autonomous municipalities in Chiapas too :) All the rest are the bare minimum to keep the people from rebelling. > imperialism Imperialism is a major feature of global capitalism. Quick example: the market logic (a weasel-word for violent coercion by powerful countries) dictates that Ethiopia faces famines at the same time that it exports massive amounts of food.
- JoeAltmaier 5y ago
  Labor is becoming extinct because, automation. Everybody sees the 'working class' dropping down from technical work to office work to road work or point-of-sale (flipping burgers). It employment sure, but now point-of-sale is being automated away. What then? America has 30M in fast-food. They can't all be retrained as Engineers, and even if they could we don't need 30M more Engineers. What happens to Marxism when the workers can't own the means of production, because there aren't any workers in the plant? That's already true in many, many operations. Automation has been explosive in the last 20 years. Production is off-shore when Chinese hand-work is cheaper then retooling for automation. When a factory 'comes back' from overseas, its because volume has increased to the point its effective to automate. No jobs come back (ok 2 or 3 automation Engineers but not 100 workers). Today America's largest buyer of automation equipment is ... China. They're 20 years behind us but catching up fast. Imagine another Billion workers put out of a job. The writing is on the wall. Workers are going to be irrelevant, and not that far in the future. Going on about what the workers are owed is going to be moot. Fast becoming so. What works then? Not capitalism, I admit, because owning a factory that produces goods quits returning profit when there's few that have the money to buy the goods. The whole system is circling the drain. But no just keep on about Marxism or workers rights or whatever, irrespective of how that group is dwindling and will soon be gone and the world is no longer an 1800's industrial society. Oh and that mark about "No True Democracies" is an old, old, tired trope called "No True Scotsman". There's no point in addressing that at all.
  - andrepd 5y ago
    1. There are about 3,000,000,000 people in employment in the world, with 200 million (about 6% of the former) able to work but unemployed. It's ridiculous — and frankly reeking of inane SV bubble/echo chamber — that you make the absurd claim that "labour is a thing of the past". Plus dismissing concern about exploitation as being "workers rights or whatever". 2. Socialism is (broadly speaking) about social ownership of capital / means of production. Corporations being worker-owned is only one way of implementing a fairer and more efficient ownership model. In a future hypothetical world with replicators, post-scarcity and post-labour, if it ever comes, socialism will only become more of a necessity. Everybody will have to own a stake in the replicators, the mechanism of private and absolute control over capital will be absurd.