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I have to take exception with nscalf saying that you should avoid very small companies like the plague. I think that expectation is based on a very silicon Vall

I have to take exception with nscalf saying that you should avoid very small companies like the plague. I think that expectation is based on a very silicon Valley view. However, there are many small companies out there who have a culture that don’t want to grind you to nonexistence. Sure, they may be in Kansas City, or Nashville, or Denver, but their founders understand that the goal isn’t to sell out, the goal is to build a business. True, eventually they may get bought by another company, but along the way they aren’t interested in killing their golden geese. Before discounting smaller companies, I would recommend delving deep into their culture. You may find that it works for you or you may find that you want no part of it. However, I would give it a shot. You may find that it’s something that you can’t get anywhere else.

thethethethe 5y ago
I second this, I once worked for a small software company with around 15 people working for the company total, including sales. They had steady income for years and there wasn't much pressure to work long hours to deliver a promised product to investors. I had flexible hours, I'd typically come in at 1 and stay until 7-8 to avoid traffic, I worked from home regularly, and they had free snacks. It was really chill
- gaws 5y ago
  What happened?
  - thethethethe 5y ago
    Why did I leave? Because I got a job at Google
memling 5y ago
Seconded. My first long-term job out of school was as the 7th man in a well-established telecommunications company. It had easily the best retirement benefit and work-life balance. Second to working from home, it was the best commute (seven minutes in rush hour to start, then 25 minutes after a move). There were downsides: the engineering wasn't that exciting, and there was no HR (both pro and con, I guess), and the budget was an accounting mistake at any Fortune 500...but I look back on it very fondly.
- inter_netuser 5y ago
  7th man in a well-established company out of schoool? Can you parse it for me?
  - djhn 5y ago
    I guess in their use of the word established it's possible to be both small and well established?
    - memling 5y ago
      Indeed, the business was well over ten years old when I joined and had excess of 1M USD in sales. My boss matched my 401k contributions dollar for dollar without limit up to the maximum you can contribute. The health benefits were chancier because of economy of scale—we just couldn't get the same rates the big guys can—and I plateaued eventually. When I got married and realized that health benefits could trump a bunch of other considerations, and that I needed to think a little harder about my future skillsets, I moved on. But it remains one of my favorite jobs.
dqh 5y ago
Agreed! Our approach with 12 or so developers: no deadlines, code review begins when you are ready. I am actively suspicious of work done quickly. I personally ensure the clients don’t expect guaranteed delivery on a fixed date. Work 38 hours a week. Once every year or two we might need to push something harder for a few days - track how many extra hours you did and take them off later whenever you like. But we try to avoid any sort of crunch. To get a job you pass my personal, practical, coding test. By practical I mean using an IDE with full web access, Google, Stack Overflow, whatever. I try to hire people with at least 10+ years experience, but the more the better. Some of our best are well over 30 years experience. In exchange we have a happy group of strong developers enjoying their work and having time for their lives outside of it. This has led to an extremely stable system that’s easy to add features to even after 15 years of evolution. Because of that perhaps it’s actually cheaper to work this way.
- wikibob 5y ago
  What is the total compensation range that the company pays?
  - dqh 5y ago
    It’s at the high end of the scale for the city. Transparently based on years of experience, with about 10 years qualifying for the maximum rate. And we proactively raise the scale when we can, individual negotiation not needed. No KPIs. All pretty simple really, and based on how I would have wanted a job to be.
    - gaws 5y ago
      > It’s at the high end of the scale for the city. What's the number?
      - kyawzazaw 5y ago
        I have a feeling you are not going to get the answer
nscalf 5y ago
This is a really good point. I did have Silicon Valley, VC funding startups in mind when I said this. To add on to this, I would probably ask about what their goals and timelines are. If they’re aiming to raise a round and get acquired, you should probably dig deeper into their culture and the pressures they put around deadlines.
toto444 5y ago
Indeed. I work in Europe for a startup that has experienced 100% growth several years in a row and everyone (except for the founders) works 9-5, goes to the pub on Thursday afternoon and leaves early on Friday.

thethethethe 5y ago

I second this, I once worked for a small software company with around 15 people working for the company total, including sales. They had steady income for years and there wasn't much pressure to work long hours to deliver a promised product to investors. I had flexible hours, I'd typically come in at 1 and stay until 7-8 to avoid traffic, I worked from home regularly, and they had free snacks. It was really chill

gaws 5y ago
What happened?
- thethethethe 5y ago
  Why did I leave? Because I got a job at Google

memling 5y ago

Seconded. My first long-term job out of school was as the 7th man in a well-established telecommunications company. It had easily the best retirement benefit and work-life balance. Second to working from home, it was the best commute (seven minutes in rush hour to start, then 25 minutes after a move). There were downsides: the engineering wasn't that exciting, and there was no HR (both pro and con, I guess), and the budget was an accounting mistake at any Fortune 500...but I look back on it very fondly.

inter_netuser 5y ago
7th man in a well-established company out of schoool? Can you parse it for me?
- djhn 5y ago
  I guess in their use of the word established it's possible to be both small and well established?
  - memling 5y ago
    Indeed, the business was well over ten years old when I joined and had excess of 1M USD in sales. My boss matched my 401k contributions dollar for dollar without limit up to the maximum you can contribute. The health benefits were chancier because of economy of scale—we just couldn't get the same rates the big guys can—and I plateaued eventually. When I got married and realized that health benefits could trump a bunch of other considerations, and that I needed to think a little harder about my future skillsets, I moved on. But it remains one of my favorite jobs.

dqh 5y ago

Agreed! Our approach with 12 or so developers: no deadlines, code review begins when you are ready. I am actively suspicious of work done quickly. I personally ensure the clients don’t expect guaranteed delivery on a fixed date. Work 38 hours a week. Once every year or two we might need to push something harder for a few days - track how many extra hours you did and take them off later whenever you like. But we try to avoid any sort of crunch. To get a job you pass my personal, practical, coding test. By practical I mean using an IDE with full web access, Google, Stack Overflow, whatever. I try to hire people with at least 10+ years experience, but the more the better. Some of our best are well over 30 years experience. In exchange we have a happy group of strong developers enjoying their work and having time for their lives outside of it. This has led to an extremely stable system that’s easy to add features to even after 15 years of evolution. Because of that perhaps it’s actually cheaper to work this way.

wikibob 5y ago
What is the total compensation range that the company pays?
- dqh 5y ago
  It’s at the high end of the scale for the city. Transparently based on years of experience, with about 10 years qualifying for the maximum rate. And we proactively raise the scale when we can, individual negotiation not needed. No KPIs. All pretty simple really, and based on how I would have wanted a job to be.
  - gaws 5y ago
    > It’s at the high end of the scale for the city. What's the number?
    - kyawzazaw 5y ago
      I have a feeling you are not going to get the answer

nscalf 5y ago

This is a really good point. I did have Silicon Valley, VC funding startups in mind when I said this. To add on to this, I would probably ask about what their goals and timelines are. If they’re aiming to raise a round and get acquired, you should probably dig deeper into their culture and the pressures they put around deadlines.

toto444 5y ago

Indeed. I work in Europe for a startup that has experienced 100% growth several years in a row and everyone (except for the founders) works 9-5, goes to the pub on Thursday afternoon and leaves early on Friday.