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Yes I never got into Rails for perhaps the same reason. There were tiny source files with some very succinct and clever code that obviously caused a huge amount

Yes I never got into Rails for perhaps the same reason. There were tiny source files with some very succinct and clever code that obviously caused a huge amount to go on behind the scenes but it was all magic and impossible to trace or diagnose anything - for me. Also discoverability simply wasn’t there in Rails and I feel the same with Phoenix. I have no idea what pieces might fit in anywhere. Having to know that you have to create a file with a particular name in a particular place if you want something to happen is a bit of a pain if you can’t find a solid reference on that, but also knowing that this is even a possibility - that a feature exists - means reading and re-reading huge documentation on every release just to have some idea of what might actually exist. It’s very likely that I really just haven’t ‘clicked’ with the right way to work with either, but I fear that the only real way to do so is to become an expert - and that would be a huge time investment. Still, I do enjoy looking at the code of projects using Phoenix, even if I can’t fathom how they knew to create certain files and what to put in them.

dnautics 5y ago
I'm about three years into using elixir professionally and I still kind of hate phoenix. There's a lot more to love in elixir than phoenix, and to be honest, especially if you're getting paid to work on a phoenix codebase, you can kind of grin and bear it, ask for help on slack/elixirforums, and it's mostly fine. There are truly only a handful of things where "you kind of have to know the magic incantations", and it's very easy to find someone who knows them. Often it's a generator. Typically you only need to be shown once per project at most (and everything else is a normal copy/paste away). And the debug lines making no sense is relatively rare. In the best sense of "being a framework", once you're past these problems, you're into pure elixir and all is good again. Jose has stated that fixing internalized pain is a real priority for the elixir ecosystem moving forward, so it's entirely possible that these things will be fixed over time (or it's possible it won't!).
- bostonvaulter2 5y ago
  > Jose has stated that fixing internalized pain is a real priority for the elixir ecosystem moving forward, so it's entirely possible that these things will be fixed over time (or it's possible it won't!). Ah, that sounds interesting. Do you have a link to where he said that?

dnautics 5y ago

I'm about three years into using elixir professionally and I still kind of hate phoenix. There's a lot more to love in elixir than phoenix, and to be honest, especially if you're getting paid to work on a phoenix codebase, you can kind of grin and bear it, ask for help on slack/elixirforums, and it's mostly fine. There are truly only a handful of things where "you kind of have to know the magic incantations", and it's very easy to find someone who knows them. Often it's a generator. Typically you only need to be shown once per project at most (and everything else is a normal copy/paste away). And the debug lines making no sense is relatively rare. In the best sense of "being a framework", once you're past these problems, you're into pure elixir and all is good again. Jose has stated that fixing internalized pain is a real priority for the elixir ecosystem moving forward, so it's entirely possible that these things will be fixed over time (or it's possible it won't!).

bostonvaulter2 5y ago
> Jose has stated that fixing internalized pain is a real priority for the elixir ecosystem moving forward, so it's entirely possible that these things will be fixed over time (or it's possible it won't!). Ah, that sounds interesting. Do you have a link to where he said that?