15 ms·

KolibriOS

355 points by luke2m 5y ago

jacob019 5y ago
Need to know more about the web browser.
luke2m 5y ago
For those who don't want to try it, here's the boot time. - https://youtu.be/j2KKkyBIXfA https://youtu.be/j2KKkyBIXfA
- lifthrasiir 5y ago
  Or you can try it online: https://copy.sh/v86/?profile=kolibrios https://copy.sh/v86/?profile=kolibrios
simlan 5y ago
Cool stuff. I Love the tiny OS paradigm since i first tried puppy Linux back in 06 (?). It is super fun what you can achieve with a trimmed to the basics desktop OS. I will give it a shot sometime soon.
pvg 5y ago
Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22873298 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22873298
yosito 5y ago
This looks really cool. The screenshot is awesome. Though I'm a bit put off by the giant Facebook logo on the homepage. I find it odd for an OS like this to organize their community on Facebook.
- gogopuppygogo 5y ago
  There is no better way to get engagement than Facebook these days. People don’t sign into forums on websites like they once did,
  - spijdar 5y ago
    People are downvoting this, maybe because of the fact-of-the-matter'ness, but I think this is probably true, coming from someone who despises Facebook. Especially for certain age-groups, Facebook is one of the few social networks you can assume people have logins on, and (maybe especially) niche communities need to lessen friction to get people involved. I don't know, I've never tried to create a public forum for this kind of thing, but I'd bet you'd get more activity out of facebook than some bespoke web forum or IRC/Matrix/what have you.
    - oooooooooooow 5y ago
      Yes, it was engineered to be this way intentionally, through unregulated competition rules and systematic killing of any open alternative by way of massive pumping of capital. We live in a disgusting scenario, we're held hostage by a racket.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    I see a lot of people moving away from Facebook here in Europe though. Maybe not in the US.. But about half of my friends were either never on FB or left it recently. The other half are still there. Mainly the older people in fact. The younger ones are on other stuff (like Instagram which is of course also facebook I guess) But I don't see it as viable as a sole outreach platform for that reason.
    - fnord77 5y ago
      I don't most people under 30 in the US use facebook unless they have to for something. Boomers, on the other hand...
    - stjohnswarts 5y ago
      A lot of my friends are still there but using it much much less. Has happened over the past few years. It has kept up during our plague which I didn't expect. I figured it would pick up a bit with more people being indoors and not traveling as much. I think it's rotting from the inside out. I know accounts are one metric, but how is traffic doing?
- Trufa 5y ago
  It seems from the past somehow.
- kxrm 5y ago
  Sadly it's becoming more the norm to rely on other services for social interaction. The last company I worked for completely ditched forums in favor of Facebook groups for community support.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    Yeah even open-source projects, like HomeAssistant moved to discord :( Matrix would be a much better choice IMO.
    - lolinder 5y ago
      I see this comment on so many different threads about so many different organizations who choose something other than Matrix. Matrix is clearly not a much better choice for most orgs, or more orgs would use it. That many FOSS orgs don't suggests that even people who believe in free software don't all see Matrix as a viable alternative to commercial solutions. Nebulously insisting that Matrix is "better" (without any specifics) doesn't help address the problems that drive people away.
      - thewakalix 5y ago
        “Better” and “more often used” are not definitionally equivalent.
    - Mawr 5y ago
      Just tried it with the hopes it's not just another FOSS alternative to <popular app> that gets touted everywhere as 'better', but is very clearly worse in every way. It's worse in every way. It's not even close to something as polished as Discord. 1. "Open in browser" is a good start, but then the registration process is downright painful. Discord doesn't require you to register at all to try it out, just to pick a nickname, it's vastly better for onboarding. 2. Requires unique nicknames. A chat app with unique nicks? this has to be a joke right? 3. As usual with FOSS, the worst part is the UI/UX. The whole design is extremely confusing. At first glance it appears the app only supports 'rooms'. But it seems that there are 'communities' and 'spaces' too? I have no idea what's going on. Discord just has servers with channels and private messages and it's all clearly indicated in the UI. Listen, I do want to use open and free alternatives if possible. But let's be realistic and stop pretending that something like Matrix is anywhere near Discord. A more reasonable alternative would be Zulip.
- fouc 5y ago
  They could be using github or gitlab for their source code repository and then use gitter.im for the community perhaps.
  - tomrod 5y ago
    Gitter.im is a poor substitute for IRC, imo.
    - StavrosK 5y ago
      Gitter is on Matrix now, which is a great substitute for IRC.
- hn3333 5y ago
  off topic: this anti facebook stance by some people here on HN is getting ridiculous.. sad this is a comment here that apparently gets upvotes. I would say that if you do not care about Kolibri os just don't comment..
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    It's just not a great fit for an open source project IMO. They go to all this trouble to build something noncommercial without tracking, and then start requiring a commercial tracking platform to collaborate? In fact one of the reasons I use HN so much is because it's not doing any of that. And because I can choose what I read (rather than Facebook's algorithms deciding what appears on my timeline). I'm sure many people come here for that reason. This'll be a reason for the many anti-facebook sentiments. Because those sentiments are one of the reasons to come here :)
  - joshgoldman 5y ago
    You would be better suited on Reddit with your bashing
- nicbou 5y ago
  I can understand. The maintainers might want to focus on maintaining their project, not the social network infrastructure for their community.
  - yosito 5y ago
    Matrix.org
- salmo 5y ago
  The code is in svn. I think it's all relative.
  - nix23 5y ago
    No it's in assembler.
    - salmo 5y ago
      I mean SVN for the code repository vs a more modern alternative eg git, mercurial, fossil… I don’t know of an SVN language?? Not hating on SVN, just think the “why aren’t they using a more modern/superior X” should be taken in that context.
      - nix23 5y ago
        Whats the problem with old technology? Linux is quite old and Unix even older. >why aren’t they using a more modern/superior X Because no one cares if it's not superior for that case.
        salmo 5y ago
        I'm very confused by this conversation. I am agreeing with you. The line you quoted, I had in quotation marks because it was essentially the question of the parent thread, not because it was my stance. "That context" meant that they started with tools like SVN for version control, and Facebook for their community. They were 'current' at the time and they probably haven't seen a reason to switch. I have no problem with this. I use many tools people find uncool or outdated. I still use RCS in places and like it better for those particular use cases (eg Bind DNS zone files), where things like file locking and versioning files vs codebases are features and not detriments. I have shell scripts I've carried around for 10-15 years to support it (ironically kept in git now), and I don't feel like reengineering for a git/ci workflow to get back to feature parity. You should look into the history of RCS->CVS->SVN (and revision control systems in general) to understand the nuances there.
- rob74 5y ago
  The giant Facebook logo is probably from a time when Facebook was regarded with less suspicion than it is today. But if you want to avoid Facebook, you can use their good ol' phpBB forum. If you look at it more closely, the site is really a time capsule: forum powered by phpBB, documentation on MediaWiki, source code hosted on WebSVN, bug tracking powered by Mantis...
ekianjo 5y ago
> Have you ever dreamed of a system that boots in less than few seconds from power-on to working GUI? You mean every OS these days with a SSD?
- toomanyducks 5y ago
  Assuming 'less than a few seconds' is actually accurate, that's not quite the case - I dual boot with a NVMe and SATA SSD, and even the NVMe (running Void Linux with runit) still takes about 30 seconds to power on. Absolutely 'fast enough' and not really something I think is worth the effort to lessen, but still not less than a few seconds.
  - dsr_ 5y ago
    I wonder what's going on. My firewall is an AMD 5130 (pre Zen) with 4 GB RAM and a SATA SSD, running Debian stable with sysvinit. It reboots in less than 30 seconds, which means that most of the time TCP sessions passing through it stay up.
  - jorams 5y ago
    That seems very extreme. My Arch install on an M.2 SSD boots to terminal in about 3 seconds, and X starts in about a second. The BIOS delay is roughly 5 seconds or so. Granted it's a fairly minimal install, but that shouldn't cause an order of magnitude difference. I don't think runit has an equivalent for `systemd-analyze blame`, but something is probably slowing things down by a lot.
  - gnull 5y ago
    I would not put up with anything more than 10-15 seconds on my stock (but not bloated) Arch with Systemd and a cheap SSD.
  - eptcyka 5y ago
    Maybe try systemd, the boot times are legitimately quicker.
  - Sephr 5y ago
    How much RAM do you have installed? That can significantly affect your boot time.
encryptluks2 5y ago
So the OS doesn't have a login username/password? Seems like a non-starter for most. I'm using full-disk encryption on Linux using systemd-boot and my OS boots pretty much as fast as this too.
- m1sta_ 5y ago
  Well my dad could beat up your dad. (Enjoy this for what it is)
cmrdporcupine 5y ago
Reminds me a bit of PC GEOS / GeoWorks Ensemble / Breadbox Ensemble from the 90s.
- JasonFruit 5y ago
  GEOS etc. was amazing to me when I first used it as a child — it seemed like what computing should be. I don't remember what it was like in detail, but I remember the way I felt about it then.
mraza007 5y ago
Interesting to see how developers are making old hardware very useful. This will make huge impact on people who can’t afford high end devices
fouc 5y ago
> a free open-source operating system written entirely in Assembly. The operating system weighs only about 3MB and will boot in less than 3 seconds even inside a virtual machine. And it really is less than 3 seconds straight to desktop UI and ready to use immediately, incredible.
- unnouinceput 5y ago
  I have a laptop with NVMe on which if I setup Win10 to boot without password prompt and no BIOS test, I can have a working desktop from cold start under 2 seconds. I actually hate that kind of speed since if I want to change something in BIOS / have different startup (like OS recovery prompt for example) my F2 / Del / F8 pressing has a lot of misses. Nowadays startup under 10 seconds is more of a hinder than a gain. My 2 cents
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    IIRC, you can use a PowerShell incantation to reboot to UEFI setup. So it's not ideal, but nevertheless manageable. Most Linux bootloaders also have this feature.
  - sinuhe69 5y ago
    It is not a cold start. Actually, the fast start feature of Windows 10 allowed this feat. But in essential, it is just restoring a working session to the RAM.
    - unnouinceput 5y ago
      Yeah, it's cold start. I think I know my laptop better than you
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - nix23 5y ago
        You oblivious don't know your Operating-system.
irq-1 5y ago
They should implement a WASM container.
phendrenad2 5y ago
KolibriOS is an open-source Operating System for x86 (32-bit, 586-class and above). It is entirely written in assembly (assembled with FASM). It requires only 8MB of RAM to boot. It has a TCP/IP stack and USB support. It has a graphical user interface which is actually on par with most of the "lightweight" Linux window managers, such as LXDE (but I think LXDE is probably larger than this entire OS lol). It fits on a single floppy.
- hulitu 5y ago
  Does it have any games ?
  - nix23 5y ago
    http://www.kolibrios.org/en/screen http://www.kolibrios.org/en/screen http://websvn.kolibrios.org/listing.php?repname=Kolibri+OS&path=%2Fprograms%2Fgames%2F&#aea1fa6cb1fc6a0a4bd228dd73b47ce8e http://websvn.kolibrios.org/listing.php?repname=Kolibri+OS&p...
- cmrdporcupine 5y ago
  I remember when I could (and did) run Linux on a 486 with 8MB of RAM and 200MB of HD. Ran X11, fvwm, emacs, Netscape. It used to be possible. These things were done in the 90s :-)
  - ainar-g 5y ago
    fvwm is still updated, and it still consumes very few resources. Apart from Netscape, nothing is stopping you from recreating that experience, heh.
    - thom 5y ago
      Dillo still exists, if you want a fast, lightweight browser with only vaguely 90s rendering capabilities.
    - spijdar 5y ago
UweSchmidt 5y ago
Love it, even has a web browser! https://board.kolibrios.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2315 https://board.kolibrios.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2315 Finally, some simple, lightweight, non-patronizing software. Definitively going to try it out soon.
- atfzl 5y ago
  Looks like it is using Netsurf Browser (http://www.netsurf-browser.org http://www.netsurf-browser.org).
- heinrichhartman 5y ago
  Nice! This might make this viable for thin client applications. Has anyone tried this?
  - luke2m 5y ago
    I believe there's a VNC client as well.
ExcavateGrandMa 5y ago
seems like a respectable operating system. while using 7zip for distrib... I was sure it was too much perfect to be true... 7z... I use Gnu/linux (everyday...) and I don't have 7z install... more like the kind of windows users... WHY THE HELL did you use 7z... :Ð
squarefoot 5y ago
I wish the authors started a crowfunding campaign to port it to ARM. It would be a huge effort for sure (it's asm, ie rewrite just about everything from scratch) but it would pay a lot in the long run. I mean, it can be already spectacular on a mini PC, now imagine it running at these speeds on a 5x5cm $15 256MB RAM Allwinner H3, or any other similar specced, board where a Linux desktop would struggle to be useable after eating all resources. It would become an instant hit for providing ultra small systems with a fast and tight environment in which write network tools, dash boards for electronics projects with scriptable GUI primitives, etc.
- nix23 5y ago
  And then port it to RiscV too ;)
- drpixie 5y ago
  Or rewrite most of it into small, quick C (or similar) - so it could be ported to other architectures easily. Overall size would be the major factor in speed and memory efficiency - rather than coding language.
  - spijdar 5y ago
    Fun fact, the earliest versions of UNIX were, in fact, written in assembler, and rewritten piecewise into the bootstrapped "C" language, partially for portability (and sanity's) sake.
desktopninja 5y ago
Will always upvote this whenever it pops up on HN. Bless this OS project and sincerely hope it gets the recognition it deserves. Have it installed on an Acer Aspire netbook and it just feels right! super snappy and everything mostly works. Its my new BeOS5 :)
- bitigchi 5y ago
  Have you tried Haiku?
  - desktopninja 5y ago
    for sure!
saganus 5y ago
How does one program something like this directly in assembly? Do you use an IDE that makes things easier? I remember doing very simple programs in asm during college, but it wasn't anywhere near this complex. Any resources or articles that touch on this topic would be appreciated!
- z3phyr 5y ago
  Check out FASM (https://flatassembler.net https://flatassembler.net) Start with this https://gpfault.net/posts/asm-tut-0.txt.html https://gpfault.net/posts/asm-tut-0.txt.html
  - saganus 5y ago
    Thanks! I'll check it out
- fmakunbound 5y ago
  Check the project’s wiki. There are several examples there.
- mids_hn 5y ago
  Assembly is a skill learned through practice, much like any other language.
- snvzz 5y ago
  Try learnasm.net, or the chibiakumas youtube channel. They also released an (affordable!) book recently, covering several architectures.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  People used to program big projects in assembly with no fancy IDE all the time. It's largely a matter of structure and organizational practices. A good macro assembler can go a long way.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    That fancy IDE was called Turbo Assembler and DevPac.
pygar 5y ago
This is a fork of MenuetOS [0]. The author of MenuetOS (Ville M. Turjanmaa) does not appear thrilled about the fork and has put the 64bit version under a proprietary license [1]. This is not criticism, just a statement. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MenuetOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MenuetOS [1] http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?p=216272#216272 http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?p=216272#216272
- Fnoord 5y ago
  > Well, they took the code and in a couple of weeks also added their own copyrights to the beginning of all kernel files, booting, multitasking, GUI, networking, drivers, all. I'm not planning to find out if it would happen again. > Currently Menuet is the only OS written 100% in assembly with modern feature-set and it took us some time to realize this goal. This is also an easily identifiable place in the computing world. > And like always, if somebody wants to be part of Menuet development, then just send me a message.
  - badsectoracula 5y ago
    According to KolibriOS' site the fork happened in 2004 so it isn't like some recent move where they got the source, added the copyright and then presented everything as own work. This is mentioned in the first page of the site too.
  - donatj 5y ago
    So they released the code open source and then were mad about someone using the source?
    - pizza234 5y ago
      Based on a face-value reading of the text above, it paints it as copyright violation. That doesn't imply it's [entirely] true, but it certainly warrants some analysis. It's not clear what exactly happened without digging. As of today, one of the core files (`kernel.asm`[¹]) is clear about licensing, but the history may have been "not straightforward". ¹=http://websvn.kolibrios.org/filedetails.php?repname=Kolibri+OS&path=%2Fkernel%2Ftrunk%2Fkernel.asm http://websvn.kolibrios.org/filedetails.php?repname=Kolibri+...
shireboy 5y ago
It seems like it would be really hard to be productive developing large projects in Assembly. Adding features/bug and security fixes seems like they would be very time consuming. What are the advantages of going this low level vs C or similar?
- unixhero 5y ago
  Speed Mental challenge
  - guenthert 5y ago
    Of which only the mental challenge is a given. Higher language compilers are steadily (still, after all those years) improving with no end in sight. Are your assembly programming skills? Are you rewriting old code with recently learned tricks? And once a superoptimizer is used, it's game over for hand assembly.
    - casmclas 5y ago
      I mean, sure, but probably most programs we use these days are written in Javascript/DOM and gratuitously interface with remote systems. It demonstrably isn't difficult to write decent assembly that is faster than the naive RESTful APIs called by Javascript that makes our 8 core 2-5 GHz computers feel slower than a wet week. A system written entirely in assembly is probably going to be significantly faster than a modern general purpose computer, but it probably won't be running checking your work webmail any time soon.
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      Someone needs to write those tools, why do you think sites like https://godbolt.org/ https://godbolt.org/ exist?
ianbicking 5y ago
Lots of talk about speed and size, has anyone noticed any cool aspects of the UI or basic OS metaphors? It looks pretty conventional to me, but in a little project sometimes fun ideas get put in places you wouldn't notice... (Really I'd like to see something with the same kind of weird and divergent ideas as TempleOS but in a more accessible package)
musicale 5y ago
Unfortunately modern computing requires Chrome, which runs comfortably in 32GB.

KolibriOS

355 points by luke2m 5y ago

jacob019 5y ago

Need to know more about the web browser.

luke2m 5y ago

For those who don't want to try it, here's the boot time. - https://youtu.be/j2KKkyBIXfA https://youtu.be/j2KKkyBIXfA

lifthrasiir 5y ago
Or you can try it online: https://copy.sh/v86/?profile=kolibrios https://copy.sh/v86/?profile=kolibrios

simlan 5y ago

Cool stuff. I Love the tiny OS paradigm since i first tried puppy Linux back in 06 (?). It is super fun what you can achieve with a trimmed to the basics desktop OS. I will give it a shot sometime soon.

pvg 5y ago

Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22873298 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22873298

yosito 5y ago

This looks really cool. The screenshot is awesome. Though I'm a bit put off by the giant Facebook logo on the homepage. I find it odd for an OS like this to organize their community on Facebook.

gogopuppygogo 5y ago
There is no better way to get engagement than Facebook these days. People don’t sign into forums on websites like they once did,
- spijdar 5y ago
  People are downvoting this, maybe because of the fact-of-the-matter'ness, but I think this is probably true, coming from someone who despises Facebook. Especially for certain age-groups, Facebook is one of the few social networks you can assume people have logins on, and (maybe especially) niche communities need to lessen friction to get people involved. I don't know, I've never tried to create a public forum for this kind of thing, but I'd bet you'd get more activity out of facebook than some bespoke web forum or IRC/Matrix/what have you.
  - oooooooooooow 5y ago
    Yes, it was engineered to be this way intentionally, through unregulated competition rules and systematic killing of any open alternative by way of massive pumping of capital. We live in a disgusting scenario, we're held hostage by a racket.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  I see a lot of people moving away from Facebook here in Europe though. Maybe not in the US.. But about half of my friends were either never on FB or left it recently. The other half are still there. Mainly the older people in fact. The younger ones are on other stuff (like Instagram which is of course also facebook I guess) But I don't see it as viable as a sole outreach platform for that reason.
  - fnord77 5y ago
    I don't most people under 30 in the US use facebook unless they have to for something. Boomers, on the other hand...
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
    A lot of my friends are still there but using it much much less. Has happened over the past few years. It has kept up during our plague which I didn't expect. I figured it would pick up a bit with more people being indoors and not traveling as much. I think it's rotting from the inside out. I know accounts are one metric, but how is traffic doing?
Trufa 5y ago
It seems from the past somehow.
kxrm 5y ago
Sadly it's becoming more the norm to rely on other services for social interaction. The last company I worked for completely ditched forums in favor of Facebook groups for community support.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Yeah even open-source projects, like HomeAssistant moved to discord :( Matrix would be a much better choice IMO.
  - lolinder 5y ago
    I see this comment on so many different threads about so many different organizations who choose something other than Matrix. Matrix is clearly not a much better choice for most orgs, or more orgs would use it. That many FOSS orgs don't suggests that even people who believe in free software don't all see Matrix as a viable alternative to commercial solutions. Nebulously insisting that Matrix is "better" (without any specifics) doesn't help address the problems that drive people away.
    - thewakalix 5y ago
      “Better” and “more often used” are not definitionally equivalent.
  - Mawr 5y ago
    Just tried it with the hopes it's not just another FOSS alternative to <popular app> that gets touted everywhere as 'better', but is very clearly worse in every way. It's worse in every way. It's not even close to something as polished as Discord. 1. "Open in browser" is a good start, but then the registration process is downright painful. Discord doesn't require you to register at all to try it out, just to pick a nickname, it's vastly better for onboarding. 2. Requires unique nicknames. A chat app with unique nicks? this has to be a joke right? 3. As usual with FOSS, the worst part is the UI/UX. The whole design is extremely confusing. At first glance it appears the app only supports 'rooms'. But it seems that there are 'communities' and 'spaces' too? I have no idea what's going on. Discord just has servers with channels and private messages and it's all clearly indicated in the UI. Listen, I do want to use open and free alternatives if possible. But let's be realistic and stop pretending that something like Matrix is anywhere near Discord. A more reasonable alternative would be Zulip.
fouc 5y ago
They could be using github or gitlab for their source code repository and then use gitter.im for the community perhaps.
- tomrod 5y ago
  Gitter.im is a poor substitute for IRC, imo.
  - StavrosK 5y ago
    Gitter is on Matrix now, which is a great substitute for IRC.
hn3333 5y ago
off topic: this anti facebook stance by some people here on HN is getting ridiculous.. sad this is a comment here that apparently gets upvotes. I would say that if you do not care about Kolibri os just don't comment..
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  It's just not a great fit for an open source project IMO. They go to all this trouble to build something noncommercial without tracking, and then start requiring a commercial tracking platform to collaborate? In fact one of the reasons I use HN so much is because it's not doing any of that. And because I can choose what I read (rather than Facebook's algorithms deciding what appears on my timeline). I'm sure many people come here for that reason. This'll be a reason for the many anti-facebook sentiments. Because those sentiments are one of the reasons to come here :)
- joshgoldman 5y ago
  You would be better suited on Reddit with your bashing
nicbou 5y ago
I can understand. The maintainers might want to focus on maintaining their project, not the social network infrastructure for their community.
- yosito 5y ago
  Matrix.org
salmo 5y ago
The code is in svn. I think it's all relative.
- nix23 5y ago
  No it's in assembler.
  - salmo 5y ago
    I mean SVN for the code repository vs a more modern alternative eg git, mercurial, fossil… I don’t know of an SVN language?? Not hating on SVN, just think the “why aren’t they using a more modern/superior X” should be taken in that context.
    - nix23 5y ago
      Whats the problem with old technology? Linux is quite old and Unix even older. >why aren’t they using a more modern/superior X Because no one cares if it's not superior for that case.
      - salmo 5y ago
        I'm very confused by this conversation. I am agreeing with you. The line you quoted, I had in quotation marks because it was essentially the question of the parent thread, not because it was my stance. "That context" meant that they started with tools like SVN for version control, and Facebook for their community. They were 'current' at the time and they probably haven't seen a reason to switch. I have no problem with this. I use many tools people find uncool or outdated. I still use RCS in places and like it better for those particular use cases (eg Bind DNS zone files), where things like file locking and versioning files vs codebases are features and not detriments. I have shell scripts I've carried around for 10-15 years to support it (ironically kept in git now), and I don't feel like reengineering for a git/ci workflow to get back to feature parity. You should look into the history of RCS->CVS->SVN (and revision control systems in general) to understand the nuances there.
rob74 5y ago
The giant Facebook logo is probably from a time when Facebook was regarded with less suspicion than it is today. But if you want to avoid Facebook, you can use their good ol' phpBB forum. If you look at it more closely, the site is really a time capsule: forum powered by phpBB, documentation on MediaWiki, source code hosted on WebSVN, bug tracking powered by Mantis...

ekianjo 5y ago

> Have you ever dreamed of a system that boots in less than few seconds from power-on to working GUI? You mean every OS these days with a SSD?

toomanyducks 5y ago
Assuming 'less than a few seconds' is actually accurate, that's not quite the case - I dual boot with a NVMe and SATA SSD, and even the NVMe (running Void Linux with runit) still takes about 30 seconds to power on. Absolutely 'fast enough' and not really something I think is worth the effort to lessen, but still not less than a few seconds.
- dsr_ 5y ago
  I wonder what's going on. My firewall is an AMD 5130 (pre Zen) with 4 GB RAM and a SATA SSD, running Debian stable with sysvinit. It reboots in less than 30 seconds, which means that most of the time TCP sessions passing through it stay up.
- jorams 5y ago
  That seems very extreme. My Arch install on an M.2 SSD boots to terminal in about 3 seconds, and X starts in about a second. The BIOS delay is roughly 5 seconds or so. Granted it's a fairly minimal install, but that shouldn't cause an order of magnitude difference. I don't think runit has an equivalent for `systemd-analyze blame`, but something is probably slowing things down by a lot.
- gnull 5y ago
  I would not put up with anything more than 10-15 seconds on my stock (but not bloated) Arch with Systemd and a cheap SSD.
- eptcyka 5y ago
  Maybe try systemd, the boot times are legitimately quicker.
- Sephr 5y ago
  How much RAM do you have installed? That can significantly affect your boot time.

encryptluks2 5y ago

So the OS doesn't have a login username/password? Seems like a non-starter for most. I'm using full-disk encryption on Linux using systemd-boot and my OS boots pretty much as fast as this too.

m1sta_ 5y ago
Well my dad could beat up your dad. (Enjoy this for what it is)

cmrdporcupine 5y ago

Reminds me a bit of PC GEOS / GeoWorks Ensemble / Breadbox Ensemble from the 90s.

JasonFruit 5y ago
GEOS etc. was amazing to me when I first used it as a child — it seemed like what computing should be. I don't remember what it was like in detail, but I remember the way I felt about it then.

mraza007 5y ago

Interesting to see how developers are making old hardware very useful. This will make huge impact on people who can’t afford high end devices

fouc 5y ago

> a free open-source operating system written entirely in Assembly. The operating system weighs only about 3MB and will boot in less than 3 seconds even inside a virtual machine. And it really is less than 3 seconds straight to desktop UI and ready to use immediately, incredible.

unnouinceput 5y ago
I have a laptop with NVMe on which if I setup Win10 to boot without password prompt and no BIOS test, I can have a working desktop from cold start under 2 seconds. I actually hate that kind of speed since if I want to change something in BIOS / have different startup (like OS recovery prompt for example) my F2 / Del / F8 pressing has a lot of misses. Nowadays startup under 10 seconds is more of a hinder than a gain. My 2 cents
- zozbot234 5y ago
  IIRC, you can use a PowerShell incantation to reboot to UEFI setup. So it's not ideal, but nevertheless manageable. Most Linux bootloaders also have this feature.
- sinuhe69 5y ago
  It is not a cold start. Actually, the fast start feature of Windows 10 allowed this feat. But in essential, it is just restoring a working session to the RAM.
  - unnouinceput 5y ago
    Yeah, it's cold start. I think I know my laptop better than you
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - nix23 5y ago
      You oblivious don't know your Operating-system.

irq-1 5y ago

They should implement a WASM container.

phendrenad2 5y ago

KolibriOS is an open-source Operating System for x86 (32-bit, 586-class and above). It is entirely written in assembly (assembled with FASM). It requires only 8MB of RAM to boot. It has a TCP/IP stack and USB support. It has a graphical user interface which is actually on par with most of the "lightweight" Linux window managers, such as LXDE (but I think LXDE is probably larger than this entire OS lol). It fits on a single floppy.

hulitu 5y ago
Does it have any games ?
- nix23 5y ago
  http://www.kolibrios.org/en/screen http://www.kolibrios.org/en/screen http://websvn.kolibrios.org/listing.php?repname=Kolibri+OS&path=%2Fprograms%2Fgames%2F&#aea1fa6cb1fc6a0a4bd228dd73b47ce8e http://websvn.kolibrios.org/listing.php?repname=Kolibri+OS&p...
cmrdporcupine 5y ago
I remember when I could (and did) run Linux on a 486 with 8MB of RAM and 200MB of HD. Ran X11, fvwm, emacs, Netscape. It used to be possible. These things were done in the 90s :-)
- ainar-g 5y ago
  fvwm is still updated, and it still consumes very few resources. Apart from Netscape, nothing is stopping you from recreating that experience, heh.
  - thom 5y ago
    Dillo still exists, if you want a fast, lightweight browser with only vaguely 90s rendering capabilities.
  - spijdar 5y ago

UweSchmidt 5y ago

Love it, even has a web browser! https://board.kolibrios.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2315 https://board.kolibrios.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2315 Finally, some simple, lightweight, non-patronizing software. Definitively going to try it out soon.

atfzl 5y ago
Looks like it is using Netsurf Browser (http://www.netsurf-browser.org http://www.netsurf-browser.org).
heinrichhartman 5y ago
Nice! This might make this viable for thin client applications. Has anyone tried this?
- luke2m 5y ago
  I believe there's a VNC client as well.

ExcavateGrandMa 5y ago

seems like a respectable operating system. while using 7zip for distrib... I was sure it was too much perfect to be true... 7z... I use Gnu/linux (everyday...) and I don't have 7z install... more like the kind of windows users... WHY THE HELL did you use 7z... :Ð

squarefoot 5y ago

I wish the authors started a crowfunding campaign to port it to ARM. It would be a huge effort for sure (it's asm, ie rewrite just about everything from scratch) but it would pay a lot in the long run. I mean, it can be already spectacular on a mini PC, now imagine it running at these speeds on a 5x5cm $15 256MB RAM Allwinner H3, or any other similar specced, board where a Linux desktop would struggle to be useable after eating all resources. It would become an instant hit for providing ultra small systems with a fast and tight environment in which write network tools, dash boards for electronics projects with scriptable GUI primitives, etc.

nix23 5y ago
And then port it to RiscV too ;)
drpixie 5y ago
Or rewrite most of it into small, quick C (or similar) - so it could be ported to other architectures easily. Overall size would be the major factor in speed and memory efficiency - rather than coding language.
- spijdar 5y ago
  Fun fact, the earliest versions of UNIX were, in fact, written in assembler, and rewritten piecewise into the bootstrapped "C" language, partially for portability (and sanity's) sake.

desktopninja 5y ago

Will always upvote this whenever it pops up on HN. Bless this OS project and sincerely hope it gets the recognition it deserves. Have it installed on an Acer Aspire netbook and it just feels right! super snappy and everything mostly works. Its my new BeOS5 :)

bitigchi 5y ago
Have you tried Haiku?
- desktopninja 5y ago
  for sure!

saganus 5y ago

How does one program something like this directly in assembly? Do you use an IDE that makes things easier? I remember doing very simple programs in asm during college, but it wasn't anywhere near this complex. Any resources or articles that touch on this topic would be appreciated!

z3phyr 5y ago
Check out FASM (https://flatassembler.net https://flatassembler.net) Start with this https://gpfault.net/posts/asm-tut-0.txt.html https://gpfault.net/posts/asm-tut-0.txt.html
- saganus 5y ago
  Thanks! I'll check it out
fmakunbound 5y ago
Check the project’s wiki. There are several examples there.
mids_hn 5y ago
Assembly is a skill learned through practice, much like any other language.
snvzz 5y ago
Try learnasm.net, or the chibiakumas youtube channel. They also released an (affordable!) book recently, covering several architectures.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
People used to program big projects in assembly with no fancy IDE all the time. It's largely a matter of structure and organizational practices. A good macro assembler can go a long way.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  That fancy IDE was called Turbo Assembler and DevPac.

pygar 5y ago

This is a fork of MenuetOS [0]. The author of MenuetOS (Ville M. Turjanmaa) does not appear thrilled about the fork and has put the 64bit version under a proprietary license [1]. This is not criticism, just a statement. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MenuetOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MenuetOS [1] http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?p=216272#216272 http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?p=216272#216272

Fnoord 5y ago
> Well, they took the code and in a couple of weeks also added their own copyrights to the beginning of all kernel files, booting, multitasking, GUI, networking, drivers, all. I'm not planning to find out if it would happen again. > Currently Menuet is the only OS written 100% in assembly with modern feature-set and it took us some time to realize this goal. This is also an easily identifiable place in the computing world. > And like always, if somebody wants to be part of Menuet development, then just send me a message.
- badsectoracula 5y ago
  According to KolibriOS' site the fork happened in 2004 so it isn't like some recent move where they got the source, added the copyright and then presented everything as own work. This is mentioned in the first page of the site too.
- donatj 5y ago
  So they released the code open source and then were mad about someone using the source?
  - pizza234 5y ago
    Based on a face-value reading of the text above, it paints it as copyright violation. That doesn't imply it's [entirely] true, but it certainly warrants some analysis. It's not clear what exactly happened without digging. As of today, one of the core files (`kernel.asm`[¹]) is clear about licensing, but the history may have been "not straightforward". ¹=http://websvn.kolibrios.org/filedetails.php?repname=Kolibri+OS&path=%2Fkernel%2Ftrunk%2Fkernel.asm http://websvn.kolibrios.org/filedetails.php?repname=Kolibri+...

shireboy 5y ago

It seems like it would be really hard to be productive developing large projects in Assembly. Adding features/bug and security fixes seems like they would be very time consuming. What are the advantages of going this low level vs C or similar?

unixhero 5y ago
Speed Mental challenge
- guenthert 5y ago
  Of which only the mental challenge is a given. Higher language compilers are steadily (still, after all those years) improving with no end in sight. Are your assembly programming skills? Are you rewriting old code with recently learned tricks? And once a superoptimizer is used, it's game over for hand assembly.
  - casmclas 5y ago
    I mean, sure, but probably most programs we use these days are written in Javascript/DOM and gratuitously interface with remote systems. It demonstrably isn't difficult to write decent assembly that is faster than the naive RESTful APIs called by Javascript that makes our 8 core 2-5 GHz computers feel slower than a wet week. A system written entirely in assembly is probably going to be significantly faster than a modern general purpose computer, but it probably won't be running checking your work webmail any time soon.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Someone needs to write those tools, why do you think sites like https://godbolt.org/ https://godbolt.org/ exist?

ianbicking 5y ago

Lots of talk about speed and size, has anyone noticed any cool aspects of the UI or basic OS metaphors? It looks pretty conventional to me, but in a little project sometimes fun ideas get put in places you wouldn't notice... (Really I'd like to see something with the same kind of weird and divergent ideas as TempleOS but in a more accessible package)

musicale 5y ago

Unfortunately modern computing requires Chrome, which runs comfortably in 32GB.