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“Industry, thrift and self-control are not sought because they create wealth, but because they create character.” - Calvin Coolidge I think our generation is
by mgh2 5y ago
“Industry, thrift and self-control are not sought because they create wealth, but because they create character.”
- Calvin Coolidge
I think our generation is forgetting some fundamentals: money at the expense of anything else. The problem with this approach, is not only that it destroys character in the individual, but that it also scales externalities to the rest of society.
Part of this narrative is sold by startup culture and technocrats preaching to "change the world", while in reality the majority is just chasing quick money. From FAANGs to VCs, they control the media that convince young people to do the same: Robinhood, GameStop, cryptocurrencies are just reflections of this epidemic.
This article is as ignorant as it gets as it refers to a misquoted saying "money is the root of all evil". The real quote is "the LOVE of money is the root of all evil" (aka. GREED)
"The vaunted American dream, the idea that life will get better, that progress is inevitable if we obey the rules and work hard, that material prosperity is assured, has been replaced by a hard and bitter truth. The American dream, we now know, is a lie. We will all be sacrificed. The virus of corporate abuse – the perverted belief that only corporate profit matters – has spread to outsource our jobs, cut the budgets of our schools, close our libraries, and plague our communities with foreclosures and unemployment." - Chris Hedges
Americans are forgetting their values
https://m-g-h.medium.com/why-we-are-dispensable-7a577eba4f3e https://m-g-h.medium.com/why-we-are-dispensable-7a577eba4f3e
- redisman 5y agoThat dream was scrapped for parts by Reagan et al. It’s ridiculous to blame the millennials- the first generation (ever?) in the US to be worse off than their predecessors economically.
- mgh2 5y agoI agree, but is emulating the errors of our parents that corroded society the best solution?
- davesque 5y agoBut our "parents" are still largely in control? Wouldn't passing economic reforms probably be easier without a bunch of deluded boomers and gen Xers in Congress?
- mgh2 5y agoAs hard as it is to believe, the gov. is on our side. They are the last resort against greed. Maybe consider working for them to change the rules from the inside.
- Zhenya 5y agoHow do you square that people are greedy, but a group of people in power, with the threat of violence, is not.
- mgh2 5y agoIt is not perfect, but the US is a bit different from other countries, if you bother to look at the data. https://m-g-h.medium.com/in-data-we-trust-2978dacc8c22 https://m-g-h.medium.com/in-data-we-trust-2978dacc8c22
- Balgair 5y ago> They are the last resort against greed. Nit: In a democracy, you are the government. We all are. There is no 'them'. They are us. I know, I know. What I just typed was naive pedantic droll. But if you really do believe it, then it does become true, kinda. It takes work, a lot of work, very hard work. But votes and service to the community really really do matter.
- taneq 5y agoNit^2: You aren’t in a democracy.
- coldelectrons 5y ago
- andrewmcwatters 5y agoThe full verse: “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.” -1 Timothy 6:10 (ESV)
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- 1270018080 5y agoThe YC bubble might be addicted to greed, but I don't think the youngest generations desire money more than anything else. Most don't even have the opportunity to desire money. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/12/03/precariousness-modern-young-adulthood-one-chart/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/12/03/precariou... Here's the classic chart that has been thrown around.
- developer93 5y agopaywall warning
- whatshisface 5y ago>it also scales externalities I knew when I saw "at scale" in call-for-proposals issued by federal granting agencies that it was soon to lose all meaning, and I think this is about the point at which it's done that.
- imheretolearn 5y ago>> I think our generation is forgetting some fundamentals: money at the expense of anything else. This is a very broad statement and does not apply equally to everyone. It fits well for someone belonging from a well off family/society vs someone struggling to survive.
- roughly 5y agoI don't think the critique here is against those struggling to survive, and I don't think you're doing those folks any favors by cutting off conversations about the overfixation on money in American society.
- 99_00 5y agoGreed is not new. You assume people are greedier now because you are alive now.
- planet-and-halo 5y agoI think maybe the point of the comment is that there were countervailing forces in society at one point, e.g. the dictates of certain religions. That aspect of society is substantially weakened in our time (ethical codes of living are broadly considered antiquated and ridiculous in modern societies), so the focus on greed or greed-adjacent motivations are less restrained. Whether that is a Good Thing (tm) is up for debate, but it seems like a reasonable statement to me.
- truth_ 5y ago> there were countervailing forces in society at one point, e.g. the dictates of certain religions. Only because they just wanted the money for themselves.
- planet-and-halo 5y agoThis is sort of the obvious "opiate of the masses" counter, which I think is a reasonable consideration.
- jollybean 5y agoGreed is not new, but the mechanics of society are completely different now than 100 years ago. For common people only 2 generations ago, the only way to 'make money' was to do actual work, something that probably created some kind of net value. Surpluses were shared differently, but work was done. The opportunities to hustle and grab value while creating little for society is available to the common person today. The economics have changed quite dramatically and that does factor into the equation.
- 99_00 5y agoCharles Ponzi became famous literally 100 years ago.
- fairity 5y agoYou do a great job summarizing the problems that arise from greed, but I wonder if you recognize that there are countervailing benefits. A lot of progress and innovation has been made by greedy individuals. I think much of this progress would be lost had they adopted more wholesome values, because greed is a superior motivator. Greed is a superior motivator because it has no bounds. When someone is obsessed with accumulating wealth, it tends to be a never-ending pursuit. No matter how much wealth they accumulate, they're left wanting more. This is in stark contrast to more wholesome values, which tend to be more easily satiated. I think another way to frame this is: the problem is not greed itself. Rather, the problem is that our current system of harnessing greed fails at controlling negative externalities. Without these negative externalities, greed would be a positive force.
- c22 5y agoIt doesn't make any sense to talk about "losing" progress. Either you're progressing or you're not. What you're potentially losing here is "speed of progress" which may or may not turn out to be beneficial to this planet's inhabitants over the long run.
- Dudeman112 5y agoI think you are hanging to the literal meaning of the expression they used instead of the metaphorical (aka the progress wouldn't have been achieved). As a side note: >It doesn't make any sense to talk about "losing" progress. Haven't you (or someone you know) ever lost progress because of a power failure? ;)
- c22 5y agoYes, I will accept your definition of losing progress. I'm arguing that the progress will get achieved with or without the greedy actors, and possibly even in a "better" way, overall.
- mgh2 5y agoFor who you may ask? Only to the elite few, the rest are left with scraps.
- WalterBright 5y agoThe free market harnesses greed to make everyone else better off. We live in a golden age, all the result of greed. No other economic system has come close to that.
- lucian1900 5y agoThe vast number of homeless in all major cities would disagree. Same with the countless whose livelihoods are being ruined by the unfolding climate catastrophe. Not to mention the majority of humans being kept poor for the profit of a few. No economic system other than capitalism has come close to so much suffering and death.
- WalterBright 5y ago> No economic system other than capitalism has come close to so much suffering and death. See "The Black Book of Communism". https://www.amazon.com/Black-Book-Communism-Crimes-Repression/dp/0674076087 https://www.amazon.com/Black-Book-Communism-Crimes-Repressio...
- lucian1900 5y agoWhich counts invading Nazis and babies that might have been born. It’s widely panned by historians and even several of the authors admitted they made bits up. Regardless, capitalism’s death toll far exceeds 100 million, it achieves that much in a few years. The carnage is truly difficult to imagine, especially in the comfort such carnage buys for the imperialist countries.
- rzmnzm 5y agoNothing in "capitalism" watches the scale of stalin's purges and dead camps. Or Mao's They followed an impossible dream straight into hell.
- alentist 5y ago> capitalism’s death toll far exceeds 100 million, it achieves that much in a few years Do you have a reliable source for this fantastical claim?
- acituan 5y ago> I think our generation is forgetting some fundamentals: money at the expense of anything else. This makes it sound like it is a collection of individual failings that lead to market and growth remaining as the only normativities today. It is the other way around; since religion and nation are left for dead after modernism, there is no glue layer that brings values together. People are not likely to be virtuous in isolation because in absence of coordinating factors, game theoretic advantage is on the one who cheats, at least in the short run. If there is no ambient sense of fair play, character doesn't pay the bills. New generations are increasingly feeling being cheated out of a life preceding generations had had. There is only one button available to them and that is "more work, more growth, more hype". The problem with the article's premise is in its framing; why does one feel that they need to be rich to feel secure to begin with? What anxiety locks us up on focusing on that goal? What buttons we could viably add back to the game?
- MispelledToyota 5y agoWhat would be the coordinating factor? Surely its disappearance is the failing of some collection of some individuals?
- andrepd 5y agoWho would say that a society and economic system which rewards selfishness and greed would breed people who are selfish and greedy... Actually the remarkable thing is that even despite the massive promotion of consumerism and the cult of money, the majority of people do not want to be rich or famous, they just want a nice comfortable life, where they don't work too much and don't have to worry 24/7 about making it till the end of the month with unpaid bills stacking up. They want to work reasonable hours and get a reasonable salary. They just don't want to be exploited, they don't want to rent a shitty apartment for their whole lives, they don't want to postpone starting a family because they cannot bear the expense.