5 ms·

I feel like you didn't read or listen to the content. Naval is not suggesting you have to be an investor to get rich. But you do have to do something that give

by eloff 5y ago

I feel like you didn't read or listen to the content. Naval is not suggesting you have to be an investor to get rich. But you do have to do something that gives you leverage, like starting a company. You're not going to get rich renting your time to an employer (unless you get lucky with stock options, or investing your income, but that's back to the point about leverage.)

SyzygistSix 5y ago
So what does a world where no one is renting their time look like?
- paulpauper 5y ago
  it is a meaningless/nonsensical statement
paulpauper 5y ago
>You're not going to get rich renting your time to an employer poor goldman sachs execs. how ripepd off they are to only be making millions/year when they could fire thier boss and start a subway franchise. poor a-list actors only making $20/million per film. Most small businesses,startups fail. Odds are a doctor making 7-figures will become more rich compared to an entrepreneur who dropped out of college.
- mehphp 5y ago
  Why the pedantry? Those examples are exceedingly rare.
  - paulpauper 5y ago
    being a doctor is rare?
    - mehphp 5y ago
      Yes, becoming a wealthy doctor is rare. Again, the original point isn’t that it’s impossible to get rich by selling your time but that you’ll most likely need some leverage (i.e. in the form of owning a business)
      - ryan93 5y ago
        Most doctors retire with millions if they want. Pediatricians make more than most engineers
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Becoming a doctor in the US is the most sure fire way to become wealthy across a whole occupation class. Less so today, as they are being squeezed, but they had a goldmine from 1980 to 2010s. If you’re not becoming wealthy with these kinds of average incomes, you’re doing something wrong: https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2019-compensation-overview-6011286 https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2019-compensation-overvie...
    - onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
      Or an engineer at FAANG+M? There's literally millions of us.
      - mehphp 5y ago
        FAANG is engineers do great but not sure I’d classify the vast majority of them as rich...
        ghaff 5y ago
        Do you like upper middle class better? No, they're not flying private jets but unless they're right out of school with a lot of debt they're probably pretty comfortable.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > Or an engineer at FAANG+M? There's literally millions of us “Software and Web Developers, Programmers, and Testers”, total, in the US are under 2 million, and FAANG+M are a small fraction of that. FAANG+M is around 1 million total employees, but most of that is Amazon, non-software. The idea that there are millions of FAANGN+M software engineers is simply nowhere close to true.
- danenania 5y ago
  Most people with a very high salary end up with an expensive lifestyle to match it. If they lose their job, they’ll need to find another one before long. In this sense, they are not that different from someone making 1/10th the salary. The main difference between being rich and being wealthy is owning and controlling your time.
  - paulpauper 5y ago
    I hear this argument a lot. Why would lifestyles become more expensive if you become an exec but not a successful entrepreneur? Successful entrepreneurs like fancy, nice things too.
    - danenania 5y ago
      That’s true, but the entrepreneur owns some piece of an income-generating asset. If the exec stops working, their income immediately goes to zero, and if they didn’t save or get some equity, their wealth could be near zero too. The entrepreneur can stop working, but still be left with both income and a valuable asset (their piece of the business).
      - medvezhenok 5y ago
        The exec can invest his excess income into income-generating assets as well, with no problem. In addition, he can use his constant cash flow as collateral to take out a loan to invest in same income generating asset. And the variance for the exec is much lower than for the entrepreneur (failure rate much much higher for startup founders). So it's not apples and oranges.
        rabuse 5y ago
        The article literally covers everything you stated.
  - AuthorizedCust 5y ago
    > Most people with a very high salary end up with an expensive lifestyle to match it. Evidence?
- gnicholas 5y ago
  Do doctors make millions annually?
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    I know quite a few that do. They make amazing silent real estate investment partners. Here’s a thread on Bogleheads from yesterday from a young doc earning $1M+: https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=349431 https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=349431 I think median is closer to $300k to $500k per year though.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > poor a-list actors A-list actors are pretty much defined by being the extremely narrow elite of the profession (entry into which elite requires work and talent and lots of luck) whose income is determined by their value licensing their personal brand to attach to things. > Odds are a doctor making 7-figures will become more rich compared to an entrepreneur who dropped out of college. Sure, but most doctors don’t make 7 figures. Anesthesiologists (the highest paid medical occupation code in BLS data) have a national mean salary of $271K.
- KronisLV 5y ago
  I feel like those places are the exceptions rather than the baseline. Working as a software developer in Europe, I make around 18k Euros after taxes per year. While I will eventually make a bit more, it would take me 74 years to make a million even if I were to save 75% of my wages, assuming that inflation is of no concern (or that modest investments that match it are in place). Not everyone is well paid, hence a side hustle and any means of passive income make sense - especially if it scales without issues (such as software, videos, music etc.).
- eloff 5y ago
  Top executives and superstars can make lots of money. There are also very few of them and there's a winner-take-all mechanic. I wouldn't choose that as a path to wealth unless I have some unfair advantage. It's not a path available to your average person. > Odds are a doctor making 7-figures will become more rich compared to an entrepreneur who dropped out of college. The only doctors that make that much are either superstars with a brand of their own, or entrepreneurs with their own practice. Doctors these days don't make that much money, but it varies a lot depending on location and specialization. I'd rather be a programmer or a lawyer from a money perspective.
wslack 5y ago
I think the point of the original comment is that everyone can't follow that path, at least right now. Someone has to pick the oranges and work in the warehouse. So pretending that everyone in those jobs is making bad choices is wrong, because someone has to do those jobs.
- eloff 5y ago
  Someone has to do the job. But if people were smarter, or had better opportunities and made better decisions, nobody would want it, so it would pay more, and then it wouldn't suck so bad. Garbage man actually pays quite well for an uneducated job because nobody wants to do it.

by eloff 5y ago

SyzygistSix 5y ago

So what does a world where no one is renting their time look like?

paulpauper 5y ago
it is a meaningless/nonsensical statement

paulpauper 5y ago

>You're not going to get rich renting your time to an employer poor goldman sachs execs. how ripepd off they are to only be making millions/year when they could fire thier boss and start a subway franchise. poor a-list actors only making $20/million per film. Most small businesses,startups fail. Odds are a doctor making 7-figures will become more rich compared to an entrepreneur who dropped out of college.

mehphp 5y ago
Why the pedantry? Those examples are exceedingly rare.
- paulpauper 5y ago
  being a doctor is rare?
  - mehphp 5y ago
    Yes, becoming a wealthy doctor is rare. Again, the original point isn’t that it’s impossible to get rich by selling your time but that you’ll most likely need some leverage (i.e. in the form of owning a business)
    - ryan93 5y ago
      Most doctors retire with millions if they want. Pediatricians make more than most engineers
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      Becoming a doctor in the US is the most sure fire way to become wealthy across a whole occupation class. Less so today, as they are being squeezed, but they had a goldmine from 1980 to 2010s. If you’re not becoming wealthy with these kinds of average incomes, you’re doing something wrong: https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2019-compensation-overview-6011286 https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2019-compensation-overvie...
  - onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
    Or an engineer at FAANG+M? There's literally millions of us.
    - mehphp 5y ago
      FAANG is engineers do great but not sure I’d classify the vast majority of them as rich...
      - ghaff 5y ago
        Do you like upper middle class better? No, they're not flying private jets but unless they're right out of school with a lot of debt they're probably pretty comfortable.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Or an engineer at FAANG+M? There's literally millions of us “Software and Web Developers, Programmers, and Testers”, total, in the US are under 2 million, and FAANG+M are a small fraction of that. FAANG+M is around 1 million total employees, but most of that is Amazon, non-software. The idea that there are millions of FAANGN+M software engineers is simply nowhere close to true.
danenania 5y ago
Most people with a very high salary end up with an expensive lifestyle to match it. If they lose their job, they’ll need to find another one before long. In this sense, they are not that different from someone making 1/10th the salary. The main difference between being rich and being wealthy is owning and controlling your time.
- paulpauper 5y ago
  I hear this argument a lot. Why would lifestyles become more expensive if you become an exec but not a successful entrepreneur? Successful entrepreneurs like fancy, nice things too.
  - danenania 5y ago
    That’s true, but the entrepreneur owns some piece of an income-generating asset. If the exec stops working, their income immediately goes to zero, and if they didn’t save or get some equity, their wealth could be near zero too. The entrepreneur can stop working, but still be left with both income and a valuable asset (their piece of the business).
    - medvezhenok 5y ago
      The exec can invest his excess income into income-generating assets as well, with no problem. In addition, he can use his constant cash flow as collateral to take out a loan to invest in same income generating asset. And the variance for the exec is much lower than for the entrepreneur (failure rate much much higher for startup founders). So it's not apples and oranges.
      - rabuse 5y ago
        The article literally covers everything you stated.
- AuthorizedCust 5y ago
  > Most people with a very high salary end up with an expensive lifestyle to match it. Evidence?
gnicholas 5y ago
Do doctors make millions annually?
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  I know quite a few that do. They make amazing silent real estate investment partners. Here’s a thread on Bogleheads from yesterday from a young doc earning $1M+: https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=349431 https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=349431 I think median is closer to $300k to $500k per year though.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> poor a-list actors A-list actors are pretty much defined by being the extremely narrow elite of the profession (entry into which elite requires work and talent and lots of luck) whose income is determined by their value licensing their personal brand to attach to things. > Odds are a doctor making 7-figures will become more rich compared to an entrepreneur who dropped out of college. Sure, but most doctors don’t make 7 figures. Anesthesiologists (the highest paid medical occupation code in BLS data) have a national mean salary of $271K.
KronisLV 5y ago
I feel like those places are the exceptions rather than the baseline. Working as a software developer in Europe, I make around 18k Euros after taxes per year. While I will eventually make a bit more, it would take me 74 years to make a million even if I were to save 75% of my wages, assuming that inflation is of no concern (or that modest investments that match it are in place). Not everyone is well paid, hence a side hustle and any means of passive income make sense - especially if it scales without issues (such as software, videos, music etc.).
eloff 5y ago
Top executives and superstars can make lots of money. There are also very few of them and there's a winner-take-all mechanic. I wouldn't choose that as a path to wealth unless I have some unfair advantage. It's not a path available to your average person. > Odds are a doctor making 7-figures will become more rich compared to an entrepreneur who dropped out of college. The only doctors that make that much are either superstars with a brand of their own, or entrepreneurs with their own practice. Doctors these days don't make that much money, but it varies a lot depending on location and specialization. I'd rather be a programmer or a lawyer from a money perspective.

wslack 5y ago

I think the point of the original comment is that everyone can't follow that path, at least right now. Someone has to pick the oranges and work in the warehouse. So pretending that everyone in those jobs is making bad choices is wrong, because someone has to do those jobs.

eloff 5y ago
Someone has to do the job. But if people were smarter, or had better opportunities and made better decisions, nobody would want it, so it would pay more, and then it wouldn't suck so bad. Garbage man actually pays quite well for an uneducated job because nobody wants to do it.