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I'm part of a mentoring group for recent college grads. One of our biggest challenges is that much of the conversation on HN, Twitter, Blind, and other sites as

I'm part of a mentoring group for recent college grads. One of our biggest challenges is that much of the conversation on HN, Twitter, Blind, and other sites assumes that FAANG admission is guaranteed. This becomes a major struggle for juniors when they realize that there aren't any FAANG offices in their location. Many others apply to FAANG but don't receive offers, which is devastating if every HN comment, medium article, and Tweet they read revolves around getting into FAANG. It's a strange situation to have to console junior engineers about their "paltry" $130K compensation at comfortable 9-5 jobs in low cost of living cities. I have to remind a lot of people that the FAANG interview acceptance rate is very, very small. This idea that everyone can call up FAANg and get a $200K+ job in their city is not helpful to anyone but top candidates in a few select cities.

nrp 5y ago
I fully agree that the fervor around FAANG is unhealthy. However, if you are just at the start if your career, that is the best time to move to wherever the jobs you are interested in are, rather than restricting yourself to what is available near where you currently are. There will be folks that have obligations preventing that, but most recent college grads should have little holding them from moving.
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  This comment is a good summary of the problem I was describing: It's easy to say that anyone who can get a FAANG job should get a FAANG job, but if circumstances don't line up, what else? That's where many students draw a blank, because all of the advice they've consumed revolves around FAANG job offers that may not arrive. Statistically, more people are rejected than accepted by FAANG companies. A lot of my mentoring time is spent helping students figure out what's next when their primary FAANG plan doesn't (or can't) work out.
  - NeverFade 5y ago
    The number of successful top tech companies keeps growing. The winner-takes-all reality of our current tech business environment means that the job market is: 1. These top companies that pay very well and offer excellent career growth prospects. 2. Everything else below. So the real answer is "keep working at your fallback option until you can finally graduate to one of the lucrative positions at the top of the pyramid". That's the real, no-BS best course for the employees themselves. For companies below that top, that is horrible situation because it means all their employees (and especially their best) are temps just waiting for their real shot elsewhere. However, it is also the reality: most employees do leave for that golden top-tech offer that pays them x2+ their current comp with no risk. Non-top companies don't really help the situation much themselves; as we all know having FAANG on your resume is the surest way to get interviews, offers, and career upgrades everywhere outside of FAANG as well. So, the "top-tech or bust" attitude will continue.
    - btheshoe 5y ago
      Companies below the top can pay competitive rates, of deal with their employees wanting to go to the top. this is a natural consequence of market economies
  - kirso 5y ago
    That is because a lot of people don't realize that we are not all based in the bay area and in fact in majority of the countries you have to scrape for 100 bucks after college with no skills and no name university. I am not being negative here, but its just the fact that privilege (even geographical) makes up for a lot in this case...
taurath 5y ago
They also know that the money/prestige they start making at the beginning of their career can vastly change their trajectory in economic terms. I would argue that the chance of making $500k/yr 10 years into their career will be vastly different if someone goes to FAANG vs a Microsoft temp role.
- m463 5y ago
  I suspect it's not a carefully-planned long-term strategy on the part of new college grads - they're just comparing offers and picking the best.
pydry 5y ago
I imagine being under mountains of student debt makes them more nervous.
reikonomusha 5y ago
I work at a company that doesn’t offer a total compensation package competitive with a FAANG, but still definitely very healthy, and we do lose many straight-outta-college candidates all the time who are demanding base pay of $200k+ because “that’s what I’d get if I worked for Google.” After denying that, unfortunately, some candidates insinuate that being offered $1.x * 10^5 for an entry-level position is a shrewd ploy to brazenly take advantage of their valuable skills at low cost.
- ffggvv 5y ago
  ironically google pay is competitively low when youre at that tier. having worked there and other places google pays the least out of top tier companies. (no im not considering amazon or msft as the same level)
  - ZephyrBlu 5y ago
    Which companies do you consider top tier?
    - ffggvv 5y ago
      airbnb facebook stripe snap google uber lyft and others (not even including hft firms like two sigma or jane street or citadel)
      - fingerlocks 5y ago
        I believe you. I was shocked by how low Amazon offered for a senior-ish position. I walked away from it. Went to a medium-sized high-growth pre-IPO company with Facebook+ comp. FAANG is overrated.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        ffggvv 5y ago
        yeah amazon’s offers are amazingly bad. that being said their stellar stock growth has more than made up for it in the past
mensetmanusman 5y ago
This is a well-known phenomenon around subjective well-being. It plays out in very interesting ways, for example, most millionaires don’t view themselves as wealthy. People untrained in escaping these dark thought patterns usually aren’t as happy as they could be.
- mLuby 5y ago
  > People untrained in escaping these dark thought patterns What is this training of which you speak?
  - mensetmanusman 5y ago
    E.g. being raised in a culture of gratitude, where the next generation is trained to find and appreciate the small things of life. It takes time and has to be incorporated into the rhythm of life.
- SZJX 5y ago
  It's not necessarily "dark" in the sense that human beings are programmed to always look for betterment for a reason. If human beings didn't have this drive to always do better and get more, we definitely wouldn't have the highly developed modern society that we have nowadays, with broadly speaking the best living conditions in history. Of course there are people who argue that the hunter-gatherers might well have been happier in some aspects, but the point is even they didn't think differently: A tribe living in an area with abundant resources might still always dream of greener pastures. One should definitely learn to strike a balance between wanting more and enjoying what they have, though my point is that to totally label such thoughts "dark" doesn't sound fair to me. If human beings lose this drive altogether, we'd be in for very dangerous times with nobody having the ambition to strive and improve anything.

nrp 5y ago

I fully agree that the fervor around FAANG is unhealthy. However, if you are just at the start if your career, that is the best time to move to wherever the jobs you are interested in are, rather than restricting yourself to what is available near where you currently are. There will be folks that have obligations preventing that, but most recent college grads should have little holding them from moving.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago
This comment is a good summary of the problem I was describing: It's easy to say that anyone who can get a FAANG job should get a FAANG job, but if circumstances don't line up, what else? That's where many students draw a blank, because all of the advice they've consumed revolves around FAANG job offers that may not arrive. Statistically, more people are rejected than accepted by FAANG companies. A lot of my mentoring time is spent helping students figure out what's next when their primary FAANG plan doesn't (or can't) work out.
- NeverFade 5y ago
  The number of successful top tech companies keeps growing. The winner-takes-all reality of our current tech business environment means that the job market is: 1. These top companies that pay very well and offer excellent career growth prospects. 2. Everything else below. So the real answer is "keep working at your fallback option until you can finally graduate to one of the lucrative positions at the top of the pyramid". That's the real, no-BS best course for the employees themselves. For companies below that top, that is horrible situation because it means all their employees (and especially their best) are temps just waiting for their real shot elsewhere. However, it is also the reality: most employees do leave for that golden top-tech offer that pays them x2+ their current comp with no risk. Non-top companies don't really help the situation much themselves; as we all know having FAANG on your resume is the surest way to get interviews, offers, and career upgrades everywhere outside of FAANG as well. So, the "top-tech or bust" attitude will continue.
  - btheshoe 5y ago
    Companies below the top can pay competitive rates, of deal with their employees wanting to go to the top. this is a natural consequence of market economies
- kirso 5y ago
  That is because a lot of people don't realize that we are not all based in the bay area and in fact in majority of the countries you have to scrape for 100 bucks after college with no skills and no name university. I am not being negative here, but its just the fact that privilege (even geographical) makes up for a lot in this case...

taurath 5y ago

They also know that the money/prestige they start making at the beginning of their career can vastly change their trajectory in economic terms. I would argue that the chance of making $500k/yr 10 years into their career will be vastly different if someone goes to FAANG vs a Microsoft temp role.

m463 5y ago
I suspect it's not a carefully-planned long-term strategy on the part of new college grads - they're just comparing offers and picking the best.

pydry 5y ago

I imagine being under mountains of student debt makes them more nervous.

reikonomusha 5y ago

I work at a company that doesn’t offer a total compensation package competitive with a FAANG, but still definitely very healthy, and we do lose many straight-outta-college candidates all the time who are demanding base pay of $200k+ because “that’s what I’d get if I worked for Google.” After denying that, unfortunately, some candidates insinuate that being offered $1.x * 10^5 for an entry-level position is a shrewd ploy to brazenly take advantage of their valuable skills at low cost.

ffggvv 5y ago
ironically google pay is competitively low when youre at that tier. having worked there and other places google pays the least out of top tier companies. (no im not considering amazon or msft as the same level)
- ZephyrBlu 5y ago
  Which companies do you consider top tier?
  - ffggvv 5y ago
    airbnb facebook stripe snap google uber lyft and others (not even including hft firms like two sigma or jane street or citadel)
    - fingerlocks 5y ago
      I believe you. I was shocked by how low Amazon offered for a senior-ish position. I walked away from it. Went to a medium-sized high-growth pre-IPO company with Facebook+ comp. FAANG is overrated.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - ffggvv 5y ago
        yeah amazon’s offers are amazingly bad. that being said their stellar stock growth has more than made up for it in the past

mensetmanusman 5y ago

This is a well-known phenomenon around subjective well-being. It plays out in very interesting ways, for example, most millionaires don’t view themselves as wealthy. People untrained in escaping these dark thought patterns usually aren’t as happy as they could be.

mLuby 5y ago
> People untrained in escaping these dark thought patterns What is this training of which you speak?
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  E.g. being raised in a culture of gratitude, where the next generation is trained to find and appreciate the small things of life. It takes time and has to be incorporated into the rhythm of life.
SZJX 5y ago
It's not necessarily "dark" in the sense that human beings are programmed to always look for betterment for a reason. If human beings didn't have this drive to always do better and get more, we definitely wouldn't have the highly developed modern society that we have nowadays, with broadly speaking the best living conditions in history. Of course there are people who argue that the hunter-gatherers might well have been happier in some aspects, but the point is even they didn't think differently: A tribe living in an area with abundant resources might still always dream of greener pastures. One should definitely learn to strike a balance between wanting more and enjoying what they have, though my point is that to totally label such thoughts "dark" doesn't sound fair to me. If human beings lose this drive altogether, we'd be in for very dangerous times with nobody having the ambition to strive and improve anything.