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Ok, so by that measure of "travel or not" I should avoid all the top countries on the incarcerated per capita list[1][2]? China comes in at 129th. The US is nu

Ok, so by that measure of "travel or not" I should avoid all the top countries on the incarcerated per capita list[1][2]? China comes in at 129th. The US is number 1. While Black people only make up 10% of the population, they make up over 50% of prisoners, 4/5ths of people in American prisons haven't even been convicted of a crime. Should I avoid the United States because of this? Have you not travelled to the United States or purchased products from them because of this stance? Honest question? It seems to be something well out of my control and I'm accepting of that fact. Other countries include Turkmenistan, El Salvador, Rwanda, Cuba. I'm highly interested in what places you have visited with these personal requirements before travelling. Never visited Russia, Eastern Europe or South East Asia? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate#/media/File:World_map_of_prison_population_rates_from_World_Prison_Brief.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...

dtx1 5y ago
Yes you should. And you propably should avoid buying from them too. I have bought stuff from china and the USA. It's inevitable, but i am under no illusion that china is a genocidal dictatorship and the racism and structural failures in the US are so bad that my country only extradites prisoners to the US when for example the death penalty is not an option. Living in the EU i only got on passport stamp from Ukraine which i got for visiting Chernobyl and from what i saw living in Ukraine can be absolutely horrible, the poverty is breathtaking if you are used to european standards.
- op03 5y ago
  This is not a healthy way of looking at the world. There are good people anywhere you go. When you choose to disconnect or blame or shame them for the actions of others, your world and understanding of it grows smaller. And who do you think benefits from that?
  - dtx1 5y ago
    People are responsible for the actions of their governments. If the government does evil shit, it's the peoples fault for allowing that government to do that. I'm sure there were nice people back in the 40s here in germany, i sure as fuck wouldn't have bought german products as a non-german back then when i had a choice.
jmpman 5y ago
Interesting statistics. I’m an American, and out of everyone I’ve personally ever known to have gone to jail, one was for rape, another for methamphetamine production, drunk driving, financial crimes. They were all white, and many of them were offered plea bargains and accepted instead of a full trial. Is the plea bargain part of your “haven’t been convicted of a crime?” I don’t personally know of anyone who’s been in jail for a single day that wasn’t guilty. I don’t question the statistic of 50% of the prison population being black, yet only being 10% of population. I also expect the majority in that prison demographic to be equally as guilty as the criminals I know. I doubt you’ll find an American who personally knows 10 people that are locked up, and of those, 8 who were falsely imprisoned. You might find an American who knows 100 people who are locked up, and 1 was possibly falsely imprisoned.
- approxim8ion 5y ago
  It's a good thing facts don't rely on anecdotes, then? At the end of the day it's happening, and that's all that matters.
jmpman 5y ago
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html#slideshows/slideshow1/2 https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html#slideshows... This appears to be the best source for US prison/jail population statistics. Still not sure where you’re getting 4/5th of people in American prisons haven’t even been convicted of a crime. It’s showing 470k of 2.3M haven’t been convicted, but are in jail prior to trial. Certainly other countries use a similar system to detain suspects prior to trial? Are you suggesting that the US shouldn’t lock up suspects prior to trial? Honest question? Now, back to the flaws in the US system. The referenced web site is hosted by a group of prison reformers who are trying to identify the cause and potential solutions to the current mass incarceration situation in the US. Does China have similar internal human rights groups questioning the imprisonment in concentration camps of the Uyhgur population? Is anyone in China allowed to host a web site questioning the situation? Again, an honest question. My understanding is that China does not allow such levels of questioning, even though technically the Chinese constitution allows for free speech. Why? Again, an honest question. As an American, I can travel to the border and deliver aid to the migrant population to see the situation in person. Can the Chinese even visit the suspected Uhygur camps? Again, an honest question?

dtx1 5y ago

Yes you should. And you propably should avoid buying from them too. I have bought stuff from china and the USA. It's inevitable, but i am under no illusion that china is a genocidal dictatorship and the racism and structural failures in the US are so bad that my country only extradites prisoners to the US when for example the death penalty is not an option. Living in the EU i only got on passport stamp from Ukraine which i got for visiting Chernobyl and from what i saw living in Ukraine can be absolutely horrible, the poverty is breathtaking if you are used to european standards.

op03 5y ago
This is not a healthy way of looking at the world. There are good people anywhere you go. When you choose to disconnect or blame or shame them for the actions of others, your world and understanding of it grows smaller. And who do you think benefits from that?
- dtx1 5y ago
  People are responsible for the actions of their governments. If the government does evil shit, it's the peoples fault for allowing that government to do that. I'm sure there were nice people back in the 40s here in germany, i sure as fuck wouldn't have bought german products as a non-german back then when i had a choice.

jmpman 5y ago

Interesting statistics. I’m an American, and out of everyone I’ve personally ever known to have gone to jail, one was for rape, another for methamphetamine production, drunk driving, financial crimes. They were all white, and many of them were offered plea bargains and accepted instead of a full trial. Is the plea bargain part of your “haven’t been convicted of a crime?” I don’t personally know of anyone who’s been in jail for a single day that wasn’t guilty. I don’t question the statistic of 50% of the prison population being black, yet only being 10% of population. I also expect the majority in that prison demographic to be equally as guilty as the criminals I know. I doubt you’ll find an American who personally knows 10 people that are locked up, and of those, 8 who were falsely imprisoned. You might find an American who knows 100 people who are locked up, and 1 was possibly falsely imprisoned.

approxim8ion 5y ago
It's a good thing facts don't rely on anecdotes, then? At the end of the day it's happening, and that's all that matters.

jmpman 5y ago

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html#slideshows/slideshow1/2 https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html#slideshows... This appears to be the best source for US prison/jail population statistics. Still not sure where you’re getting 4/5th of people in American prisons haven’t even been convicted of a crime. It’s showing 470k of 2.3M haven’t been convicted, but are in jail prior to trial. Certainly other countries use a similar system to detain suspects prior to trial? Are you suggesting that the US shouldn’t lock up suspects prior to trial? Honest question? Now, back to the flaws in the US system. The referenced web site is hosted by a group of prison reformers who are trying to identify the cause and potential solutions to the current mass incarceration situation in the US. Does China have similar internal human rights groups questioning the imprisonment in concentration camps of the Uyhgur population? Is anyone in China allowed to host a web site questioning the situation? Again, an honest question. My understanding is that China does not allow such levels of questioning, even though technically the Chinese constitution allows for free speech. Why? Again, an honest question. As an American, I can travel to the border and deliver aid to the migrant population to see the situation in person. Can the Chinese even visit the suspected Uhygur camps? Again, an honest question?