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Japanese feel compelled to defend their group because a lot of foreigners impose their cultural expectations on them, and misunderstand the intent behind why ce

Japanese feel compelled to defend their group because a lot of foreigners impose their cultural expectations on them, and misunderstand the intent behind why certain things are done the way they're done. And because they genuinely love their society/culture. Never met a single far right Japanese nationalist living there over a year. But nearly all looked at the pros and cons of their society, and felt theirs were better than the list other countries had, for providing a life they wanted to live, and don't care about how those align with other countries interpretation of those things. Your explanation is one I've often heard from people whose main Japanese friends are the "far left" who have spent significant time living outside of Japan by choice, hardly a group that could be said to represent the average Japanese person. Most Japanese also just find emotionally charged complaint to be disrespectful, even if it's not about Japan. There's a lot to learn about the nuances of their culture, a simple explanation is usually very incorrect, and might not even be a contributing factor. Curious to hear where your explanation of vocal right wing neighbors comes from.

henearkr 5y ago
First of all, you need to understand that many Japanese people want to change their country. Yes, in Japan too, "left" and "right" are 50/50. The recognition that a form of organization is imperfect is very different from "not loving it". For example I want to improve the way my computer program works, that does not mean I hate it, that's pretty much the contrary. As much as I love Japan, I want it to be better. New problems have emerged that did not exist in the past, so the mistake is to change nothing. (I say "I", but that extends to Japanese people who share this view too.) Most of the people who want to improve the society (they are often labelled "progressives", yes I feel I belong to this side) meet the opposition of people that want to keep it as it is ("conservatives"). The problem is when "progressives" are depicted as "anti-<name of the organization>", here as anti-Japanese, by some of the most extremist "conservatives". You seem to make the same association, and I'd like to inform you that this is right-wing propaganda, and it is obviously an erroneous fallacy. So, as you have yourself integrated this fallacy, it means that you have been at least in indirect contact with the right-wing ideology, even if you seem to not be aware. This association of terms prevents any movement. The reality is that there are no "anti-Japanese" and "pro-Japanese", only "pro-{new,futuristic,improved}-Japan" and "pro-{traditional,old,unchanged}-Japan". And the funny part is that in "old Japan" some conservatives want to go further in the past, but then they need to take an arbitrary reference in time. They like the Meiji period, but on many aspects Japan from the Heian period was way more "progressive" than nowadays and than what they are prepared to accept. One more element I'd like to answer to you is why you did not notice any "progressive" people around you. They are very quiet. Because of the pressure created by a part of the society, they tend to keep it to themselves. For example, I discovered only last month that a neighbor was vegan (as I am, too), and she never reveals it because it invariably attracts harsh and negative comments on her from some other Japanese people (the "vocal conservatives" which I was speaking about). I categorize veganism as a progressive characteristic, and reciprocally it is absolutely labelled as anti-Japanese by people (okay let me say they are right-wing?) on Twitter for example. Last but not least, let me precise that when I say "improved Japan" I do not mean "westernized Japan", as you seemed to imply in your critic too. On the contrary, I think that the path to the future is not yet showcased by any existing country, it has to be crafted. PS: Oh, and several years ago I was very "conservative" regarding Japan, I had pink glasses and was in unconditional love with every single aspect of it to the point that I was blind to the problems even when they slapped me in the face. So I understand you, I was there before.
- MathYouF 5y ago
  I appreciate the time taken to give a detailed reply, especially from someone with experience living in Japan, and who had once a possibly similar view as I do currently. That said, as much as you think I've integrated right wing fallacies (assuming the progressive Japanese you've spoken to have spent significant amounts of time living outside of society, something you equated to the right wing label of anti-Japanese) you have also integrated left wing fallacies (pro-{new,futuristic,improved}-Japan" and "pro-{traditional,old,unchanged}-Japan"/that left wing thinking is oppressed in Japan, the country with the largest communist party in the democratic world). The main argument of people who don't agree with you is that many progressive policies aren't, in fact, creating an "improved" Japan, and are just upholding western values that don't serve them any benefit. I'm also a vegan socialist, and have spent plenty of weekends hanging with friends who frequent Shinjuku-gyoemmae, if you know what I mean, and have been vocal about all of this to people in Japan, and experienced no push back. Perhaps I am shielded from critique being non-Japanese myself, but to call Japan a country dominated by Conservatism feels very different from the one I experienced, and seems to me that it only appears that way to the very most demanding progressives who are just as quick to label normal Japanese people as right wing. Everyone against them seems extremist to an extremist, so I have trouble believing your view isn't also deeply oppositely biased and not a clear view of the society.
  - henearkr 5y ago
    I have many things to reply to this, but I don't feel like Hacker News, and especially this sumbission, is the right place for that. Please drop me an email if you want.

henearkr 5y ago

First of all, you need to understand that many Japanese people want to change their country. Yes, in Japan too, "left" and "right" are 50/50. The recognition that a form of organization is imperfect is very different from "not loving it". For example I want to improve the way my computer program works, that does not mean I hate it, that's pretty much the contrary. As much as I love Japan, I want it to be better. New problems have emerged that did not exist in the past, so the mistake is to change nothing. (I say "I", but that extends to Japanese people who share this view too.) Most of the people who want to improve the society (they are often labelled "progressives", yes I feel I belong to this side) meet the opposition of people that want to keep it as it is ("conservatives"). The problem is when "progressives" are depicted as "anti-<name of the organization>", here as anti-Japanese, by some of the most extremist "conservatives". You seem to make the same association, and I'd like to inform you that this is right-wing propaganda, and it is obviously an erroneous fallacy. So, as you have yourself integrated this fallacy, it means that you have been at least in indirect contact with the right-wing ideology, even if you seem to not be aware. This association of terms prevents any movement. The reality is that there are no "anti-Japanese" and "pro-Japanese", only "pro-{new,futuristic,improved}-Japan" and "pro-{traditional,old,unchanged}-Japan". And the funny part is that in "old Japan" some conservatives want to go further in the past, but then they need to take an arbitrary reference in time. They like the Meiji period, but on many aspects Japan from the Heian period was way more "progressive" than nowadays and than what they are prepared to accept. One more element I'd like to answer to you is why you did not notice any "progressive" people around you. They are very quiet. Because of the pressure created by a part of the society, they tend to keep it to themselves. For example, I discovered only last month that a neighbor was vegan (as I am, too), and she never reveals it because it invariably attracts harsh and negative comments on her from some other Japanese people (the "vocal conservatives" which I was speaking about). I categorize veganism as a progressive characteristic, and reciprocally it is absolutely labelled as anti-Japanese by people (okay let me say they are right-wing?) on Twitter for example. Last but not least, let me precise that when I say "improved Japan" I do not mean "westernized Japan", as you seemed to imply in your critic too. On the contrary, I think that the path to the future is not yet showcased by any existing country, it has to be crafted. PS: Oh, and several years ago I was very "conservative" regarding Japan, I had pink glasses and was in unconditional love with every single aspect of it to the point that I was blind to the problems even when they slapped me in the face. So I understand you, I was there before.

MathYouF 5y ago
I appreciate the time taken to give a detailed reply, especially from someone with experience living in Japan, and who had once a possibly similar view as I do currently. That said, as much as you think I've integrated right wing fallacies (assuming the progressive Japanese you've spoken to have spent significant amounts of time living outside of society, something you equated to the right wing label of anti-Japanese) you have also integrated left wing fallacies (pro-{new,futuristic,improved}-Japan" and "pro-{traditional,old,unchanged}-Japan"/that left wing thinking is oppressed in Japan, the country with the largest communist party in the democratic world). The main argument of people who don't agree with you is that many progressive policies aren't, in fact, creating an "improved" Japan, and are just upholding western values that don't serve them any benefit. I'm also a vegan socialist, and have spent plenty of weekends hanging with friends who frequent Shinjuku-gyoemmae, if you know what I mean, and have been vocal about all of this to people in Japan, and experienced no push back. Perhaps I am shielded from critique being non-Japanese myself, but to call Japan a country dominated by Conservatism feels very different from the one I experienced, and seems to me that it only appears that way to the very most demanding progressives who are just as quick to label normal Japanese people as right wing. Everyone against them seems extremist to an extremist, so I have trouble believing your view isn't also deeply oppositely biased and not a clear view of the society.
- henearkr 5y ago
  I have many things to reply to this, but I don't feel like Hacker News, and especially this sumbission, is the right place for that. Please drop me an email if you want.