4 ms·

Having lived in the third world, I would say that the American poors are probably the closest you're going to get to "third world poor" anywhere in the develope

Having lived in the third world, I would say that the American poors are probably the closest you're going to get to "third world poor" anywhere in the developed world. Life expectancy, crime rates, housing quality and disease in poor American communities are on level incomparable to any other developed country I can think of.

refurb 5y ago
This is a pretty ridiculous statement as someone that has lived in multiple countries including the US. I would put forth the First Nations in Canada where many reservations yet have a source of clean drinking water despite gov’ts promises for the last couple of decades to help them with it. And to compare being poor in the US with the Third World is also shows a lack of knowledge. When you’ve lived in places where the govt will do nothing for you and the only source of relief is the charity of neighbors or NGOs you’d learn to appreciate what America offers.
- phobosanomaly 5y ago
  There are plenty of First-Nations people in the United States without access to clean drinking water. In your time in the US, did you get a chance to visit the Navajo reservation? "Tribes without clean water demand an end to decades of US government neglect US has broken promises as Indigenous Americans lack access to safe water, a crisis worsened by Covid-19" "An estimated one in 10 Indigenous Americans lack access to safe tap water or basic sanitation..." https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/28/indigenous-americans-drinking-water-navajo-nation#:~:text=An%20estimated%20one%20in%2010,gastrointestinal%20disease%20are%20more%20likely https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/28/indigenous-a.... Please check out this photo-essay on the homeless in Los Angeles. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-03-08/homelessness-and-the-pandemic https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-03-08/homeless... What do these folks have that the poor in other countries don't? Food insecurity, outbreaks of disease, living in improvised structures, threat of violence, lack of access to health care are all present in the United States. Did you get a chance to visit anywhere like the Imperial Valley? "Two weeks ago, federal prosecutors filed a lawsuit intended to clean up or shut down Duroville, which they said was lacking in necessary permits but plentiful in horrid conditions: defective construction, faulty electrical wiring, unhealthful distribution of drinking water and a deeply flawed septic system. Those ponds of gray. “The system itself leaks sewage under and around trailers and in common areas,” the government charged in court papers, leading to raw sewage being “tracked into trailers and elsewhere on the feet of residents and their pets.” But everything about Duroville is hard, just as its name suggests. It sits on the Torres Martinez Desert Cahuilla Indian Reservation, where Mr. Duro is a prominent member. Weary of the news media, he has hired a spokesman, Alan Singer, who stops short of equating Duroville with nirvana, but calls the tales of squalor overblown and racist. Mr. Singer asks one question, though, that pricks like a cactus: If Duroville is shut down, where will these thousands live? So far, no answer." https://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/21/us/21land.html https://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/21/us/21land.html The order of magnitude in numbers may differ, but there is plenty of grinding poverty in the United States. The more you travel in the United States, the more you realize that it isn't the magical shining city on the hill people think it is.
  - refurb 5y ago
    Claim was “the US is the worst of developed countries”. Clearly not.
    - phobosanomaly 5y ago
      I guess it depends on what you're comparing. I mean, compare the US Gini coefficient with other developed countries.
      - refurb 5y ago
        Gini is a relative, not absolute measure. You could have a higher Gini coefficient but your poor are better off.
        phobosanomaly 5y ago
        Ok, so what is your counter-metric (or reasoning) for why the United States is a better place to be poor in than other developed countries?
        refurb 5y ago
        Whoa. Who said better? I just said the poverty in the US isn’t unique among developed countries.
        phobosanomaly 5y ago
        You provided the example of the First Nations in Canada, which would be taken by any reasonable person as an implication that the United States is a better country to be impoverished in. When combined with your refutation of the earlier poster's comments regarding the similarity of the poor in the United States to those in the developing world and your statement that the poor in the United States aren't worse off than the poor in other developed countries, it paints an argument that the poor in the United States are somehow in a better position than in other developed countries. The totality of your statements would be interpreted by a reasonable person as implying that the poor in the United States are better off than in other developed countries. If your point is simply that the poor in all developed countries are in the same position, and that the poor in the United States are in the same position as the poor in Denmark, that's an interesting take. I mean, you could have just dropped "poverty in the US isn’t unique among developed countries" in the first post where you brought up the First Nations. I'm just out here trying to have a productive debate with strangers on the internet.

refurb 5y ago

This is a pretty ridiculous statement as someone that has lived in multiple countries including the US. I would put forth the First Nations in Canada where many reservations yet have a source of clean drinking water despite gov’ts promises for the last couple of decades to help them with it. And to compare being poor in the US with the Third World is also shows a lack of knowledge. When you’ve lived in places where the govt will do nothing for you and the only source of relief is the charity of neighbors or NGOs you’d learn to appreciate what America offers.

phobosanomaly 5y ago
There are plenty of First-Nations people in the United States without access to clean drinking water. In your time in the US, did you get a chance to visit the Navajo reservation? "Tribes without clean water demand an end to decades of US government neglect US has broken promises as Indigenous Americans lack access to safe water, a crisis worsened by Covid-19" "An estimated one in 10 Indigenous Americans lack access to safe tap water or basic sanitation..." https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/28/indigenous-americans-drinking-water-navajo-nation#:~:text=An%20estimated%20one%20in%2010,gastrointestinal%20disease%20are%20more%20likely https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/28/indigenous-a.... Please check out this photo-essay on the homeless in Los Angeles. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-03-08/homelessness-and-the-pandemic https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-03-08/homeless... What do these folks have that the poor in other countries don't? Food insecurity, outbreaks of disease, living in improvised structures, threat of violence, lack of access to health care are all present in the United States. Did you get a chance to visit anywhere like the Imperial Valley? "Two weeks ago, federal prosecutors filed a lawsuit intended to clean up or shut down Duroville, which they said was lacking in necessary permits but plentiful in horrid conditions: defective construction, faulty electrical wiring, unhealthful distribution of drinking water and a deeply flawed septic system. Those ponds of gray. “The system itself leaks sewage under and around trailers and in common areas,” the government charged in court papers, leading to raw sewage being “tracked into trailers and elsewhere on the feet of residents and their pets.” But everything about Duroville is hard, just as its name suggests. It sits on the Torres Martinez Desert Cahuilla Indian Reservation, where Mr. Duro is a prominent member. Weary of the news media, he has hired a spokesman, Alan Singer, who stops short of equating Duroville with nirvana, but calls the tales of squalor overblown and racist. Mr. Singer asks one question, though, that pricks like a cactus: If Duroville is shut down, where will these thousands live? So far, no answer." https://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/21/us/21land.html https://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/21/us/21land.html The order of magnitude in numbers may differ, but there is plenty of grinding poverty in the United States. The more you travel in the United States, the more you realize that it isn't the magical shining city on the hill people think it is.
- refurb 5y ago
  Claim was “the US is the worst of developed countries”. Clearly not.
  - phobosanomaly 5y ago
    I guess it depends on what you're comparing. I mean, compare the US Gini coefficient with other developed countries.
    - refurb 5y ago
      Gini is a relative, not absolute measure. You could have a higher Gini coefficient but your poor are better off.
      - phobosanomaly 5y ago
        Ok, so what is your counter-metric (or reasoning) for why the United States is a better place to be poor in than other developed countries?
        refurb 5y ago
        Whoa. Who said better? I just said the poverty in the US isn’t unique among developed countries.
        phobosanomaly 5y ago
        You provided the example of the First Nations in Canada, which would be taken by any reasonable person as an implication that the United States is a better country to be impoverished in. When combined with your refutation of the earlier poster's comments regarding the similarity of the poor in the United States to those in the developing world and your statement that the poor in the United States aren't worse off than the poor in other developed countries, it paints an argument that the poor in the United States are somehow in a better position than in other developed countries. The totality of your statements would be interpreted by a reasonable person as implying that the poor in the United States are better off than in other developed countries. If your point is simply that the poor in all developed countries are in the same position, and that the poor in the United States are in the same position as the poor in Denmark, that's an interesting take. I mean, you could have just dropped "poverty in the US isn’t unique among developed countries" in the first post where you brought up the First Nations. I'm just out here trying to have a productive debate with strangers on the internet.