3 ms·

I come from Norway in Scandinavia and I think you are confusing helping people rehabilitate with being soft on crime. Norway is actually tough on shoplifting.

I come from Norway in Scandinavia and I think you are confusing helping people rehabilitate with being soft on crime. Norway is actually tough on shoplifting. It is not tolerated, and its mitigated by arrest and the police spend resources tracking down sales on online platforms etc. The government also track down the source of money/income that look suspicious, and have the means to do so due to widespread government oversight of all aspects of society. Police will actually help shops or shopping centers remove non-rehabilitated people that have committed thefts in the past.

mushbino 5y ago
This is the main difference. We have relatively poor social safety nets in the US and no real regard for rehabilitation. We keep trying to put bandaids on a broken system and it just compounds the suffering.
- asabjorn 5y ago
  It does, but the Norwegian system is not perfect. It does not work as a mitigation against Eastern European “theft tourists” that come to Norway to steal. This is because Norwegian jails pay inmates per day in addition to being setup for rehabilitation, so they are not a disincentive for “theft tourists” from very poor countries. The Eastern European mafias take advantage of this and ship busses of thieves to Norway. Basically, Norway system of rehabilitation assume strong borders so that you can limit how many you need to help and Schengens free flow of people from some poor Eastern European countries violate this assumption.
  - mushbino 5y ago
    That makes sense. The tough part is that the real solution is uplifting Eastern European countries, but that's a huge challenge. In the short-term, is the cost of property theft worth creating a more draconian society? That's the absolute worst possible solution, imo.
    - asabjorn 5y ago
      To protect the capability to rehabilitate Norwegians the Norwegian people is struggling to find a way to stop this “theft tourism” as it does victimize people (private citizens through home breakins and businesses that already tax high to support socialism), and unfortunately the mitigations in some ways create a tougher society. The solutions are tough trade offs: One of the solutions is to make deals with their country of origin to serve time in jails back home, tighter border control to stop “theft thieves” from entering and prohibiting begging again as the Eastern European mafia bring in beggars to serve as mules. Especially the one around begging feels culturally difficult and it makes people sad to have to prohibit begging again as it was legalized a couple of decades ago.
  - Viliam1234 5y ago
    > This is because Norwegian jails pay inmates per day Do they pay them more than typical software developer salary is in Eastern Europe? Asking for a friend.
    - asabjorn 5y ago
      Absolutely not, but that is a demographic that is better off working from Eastern Europe than pursing less noble means :D
AussieWog93 5y ago
"Tough on crime"/"soft on crime" are terms used in Australia, the UK and probably elsewhere to describe policies of prescribing harsh/lenient punishments. It's not about how effective the police are at stopping crime but what society feels is "right".

mushbino 5y ago

This is the main difference. We have relatively poor social safety nets in the US and no real regard for rehabilitation. We keep trying to put bandaids on a broken system and it just compounds the suffering.

asabjorn 5y ago
It does, but the Norwegian system is not perfect. It does not work as a mitigation against Eastern European “theft tourists” that come to Norway to steal. This is because Norwegian jails pay inmates per day in addition to being setup for rehabilitation, so they are not a disincentive for “theft tourists” from very poor countries. The Eastern European mafias take advantage of this and ship busses of thieves to Norway. Basically, Norway system of rehabilitation assume strong borders so that you can limit how many you need to help and Schengens free flow of people from some poor Eastern European countries violate this assumption.
- mushbino 5y ago
  That makes sense. The tough part is that the real solution is uplifting Eastern European countries, but that's a huge challenge. In the short-term, is the cost of property theft worth creating a more draconian society? That's the absolute worst possible solution, imo.
  - asabjorn 5y ago
    To protect the capability to rehabilitate Norwegians the Norwegian people is struggling to find a way to stop this “theft tourism” as it does victimize people (private citizens through home breakins and businesses that already tax high to support socialism), and unfortunately the mitigations in some ways create a tougher society. The solutions are tough trade offs: One of the solutions is to make deals with their country of origin to serve time in jails back home, tighter border control to stop “theft thieves” from entering and prohibiting begging again as the Eastern European mafia bring in beggars to serve as mules. Especially the one around begging feels culturally difficult and it makes people sad to have to prohibit begging again as it was legalized a couple of decades ago.
- Viliam1234 5y ago
  > This is because Norwegian jails pay inmates per day Do they pay them more than typical software developer salary is in Eastern Europe? Asking for a friend.
  - asabjorn 5y ago
    Absolutely not, but that is a demographic that is better off working from Eastern Europe than pursing less noble means :D

AussieWog93 5y ago

"Tough on crime"/"soft on crime" are terms used in Australia, the UK and probably elsewhere to describe policies of prescribing harsh/lenient punishments. It's not about how effective the police are at stopping crime but what society feels is "right".