4 ms·

> You'd need to convince workers to not believe that someone who says sexist stuff in a book is going to cause a problem for them. This resonated with me. Anec

> You'd need to convince workers to not believe that someone who says sexist stuff in a book is going to cause a problem for them. This resonated with me. Anecdotally, I sometimes wonder if small, unpleasant interactions (e.g. getting talked over multiple times in a meeting) have anything to do with my gender (I'm the only woman on my team) or are accidental/benign. I usually assume they're benign because I like my colleagues and they haven't otherwise seemed to think I'm incompetent or weak. It would be hard to give someone like Antonio García Martínez the benefit of the doubt and I'd constantly be on guard, specifically because he's already established that he thinks Bay Area women are weak and "generally full of shit". It would start off as an exhausting work environment even on day 1.

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
That makes sense to me. If I was hired to work for someone and they were posting stuff on Twitter like, "<my group> people are all pieces of crap," or any other negative generalization, I too would probably sense animus in stuff that I normally let slide at work. I believe that this understanding is at least in large part the source of the protests that led to him being shown the door.
friedman23 5y ago
Nah, I think you are racist for criticizing a hispanic person. I'd refuse to work with you.
refurb 5y ago
Your statements come across as paranoia and looking for a problem where one likely doesn’t exist. As a white guy should I examine every interaction to see if there are racial or gender undertones? If my African American boss tells me not to be late, is it because I’m white? Or my female boss says my work is subpar, is it because I’m a man? No, that’s silly without evidence. And Martinez’s statement was: 1) fiction, 2) satire/humor, 3) taking place in a post-apocalyptic world. Thus, the only evidence you could garner from his writing is he may judge you as “worthless” if it’s a post-apocalyptic world where he needs you to fight zombies. Is that a problem when he asks you to fill out an excel after you get your free catered lunch at Apple?
- Huggernaut 5y ago
  It might be silly without evidence. The threshold for silliness would become a lot lower if there were a history of systemic problems and extensive evidence of similar scenarios in the present.
  - refurb 5y ago
    “Extensive evidence of similar scenarios”? So if in another company a man discriminated against a woman, it increases the probability that the same thing is happening to the OP? That sounds quite sexist actually. You’re basically stereotyping men based on a few bad actors.
    - Huggernaut 5y ago
      > So if in another company a man discriminated against a woman, it increases the probability that the same thing is happening to the OP? This is clearly not what anyone here is saying you should really take a moment to reevaluate your position. We're not talking about one man in one company but a historical and systemic suppression. Additionally, you'll notice that the person you are responding to does not act or treat their colleagues differently, only that they consider where these noticed actions come from.
      - refurb 5y ago
        That’s clearly what people are saying. “Because there is a history of other men discriminating, your actions are automatically suspect”. Kind of similar to people assuming blacks are criminals. It’s pure sexism/racism.
exporectomy 5y ago
What if he said that privately and you somehow found out. Would it be OK? Because a huge amount of people say similar things privately among their friends and the world keeps turning. What you describe sounds more like being the victim of gossip, which is probably a far more common and serious problem in workplaces. Should gossip be banned?
hervature 5y ago
The user imgabe has been doing a good job explaining this. But the question here is not someone treats you poorly and you find evidence that they are prejudicial against you. Imagine the converse, suppose Antonio actually treated you the best amongst your team. Should the others be fired for being worse than a “known” sexist? Known in quotes because if they say one thing but act in the opposite manner, I’m of the opinion actions speak louder than words.

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago

That makes sense to me. If I was hired to work for someone and they were posting stuff on Twitter like, "<my group> people are all pieces of crap," or any other negative generalization, I too would probably sense animus in stuff that I normally let slide at work. I believe that this understanding is at least in large part the source of the protests that led to him being shown the door.

friedman23 5y ago

Nah, I think you are racist for criticizing a hispanic person. I'd refuse to work with you.

refurb 5y ago

Your statements come across as paranoia and looking for a problem where one likely doesn’t exist. As a white guy should I examine every interaction to see if there are racial or gender undertones? If my African American boss tells me not to be late, is it because I’m white? Or my female boss says my work is subpar, is it because I’m a man? No, that’s silly without evidence. And Martinez’s statement was: 1) fiction, 2) satire/humor, 3) taking place in a post-apocalyptic world. Thus, the only evidence you could garner from his writing is he may judge you as “worthless” if it’s a post-apocalyptic world where he needs you to fight zombies. Is that a problem when he asks you to fill out an excel after you get your free catered lunch at Apple?

Huggernaut 5y ago
It might be silly without evidence. The threshold for silliness would become a lot lower if there were a history of systemic problems and extensive evidence of similar scenarios in the present.
- refurb 5y ago
  “Extensive evidence of similar scenarios”? So if in another company a man discriminated against a woman, it increases the probability that the same thing is happening to the OP? That sounds quite sexist actually. You’re basically stereotyping men based on a few bad actors.
  - Huggernaut 5y ago
    > So if in another company a man discriminated against a woman, it increases the probability that the same thing is happening to the OP? This is clearly not what anyone here is saying you should really take a moment to reevaluate your position. We're not talking about one man in one company but a historical and systemic suppression. Additionally, you'll notice that the person you are responding to does not act or treat their colleagues differently, only that they consider where these noticed actions come from.
    - refurb 5y ago
      That’s clearly what people are saying. “Because there is a history of other men discriminating, your actions are automatically suspect”. Kind of similar to people assuming blacks are criminals. It’s pure sexism/racism.

exporectomy 5y ago

What if he said that privately and you somehow found out. Would it be OK? Because a huge amount of people say similar things privately among their friends and the world keeps turning. What you describe sounds more like being the victim of gossip, which is probably a far more common and serious problem in workplaces. Should gossip be banned?

hervature 5y ago

The user imgabe has been doing a good job explaining this. But the question here is not someone treats you poorly and you find evidence that they are prejudicial against you. Imagine the converse, suppose Antonio actually treated you the best amongst your team. Should the others be fired for being worse than a “known” sexist? Known in quotes because if they say one thing but act in the opposite manner, I’m of the opinion actions speak louder than words.