4 ms·

Seeing under-qualified women who were winging it the whole way through their degree get top jobs straight out of uni, then getting rejected from the same firms

Seeing under-qualified women who were winging it the whole way through their degree get top jobs straight out of uni, then getting rejected from the same firms myself, had me very jaded on this subject. Also missed an internship i really wanted, instead of automating key processes for the company they ended up doing literally nothing the whole time they were there (they barely figured out the basics of Powershell by the end of the internship (the company wanted it done in Powershell)). This led to depression and a year of me not even bothering to seek employment. Sorry if this comment is pointless, just needed to vent. My personal view is that it's not about being a woman but about being a well socialized 'cultural fit'. Almost all women i meet are well socialized, only a minority of men my age seem to fit into this category though.

foobiter 5y ago
are you trying to say that a bias towards hiring women in academia means more incompetent women are hired? that’s a rather unfair leap to take!
throwamwayrnrkd 5y ago
Don't apologize. It's healthy to vent in low-stakes settings, and to recognize that you're emotional at the time. I hope that you take another look at the job market. Sometimes you get knocked down through no fault of your own. The people who you are frustrated with have probably experienced that in different ways, but it's never pleasant. You and your talents are valuable, and luck is a big part of life. Keep at it - comparing other peoples' successes or failures to your own is a hedonic treadmill.
radu_floricica 5y ago
How would you go about becoming a better cultural fit? I'm asking with an open mind here, and knowing two things: just telling yourself "you need to be more social" has, if anything, the opposite effect. And God, do I remember hating the feeling. And the second: I did it. Wasn't a huge difference, but went from mostly INTJ to mostly ENTJ over about 20 years. Unfortunately, 20 years is too long to be able to put my finger on something and say "this worked". If I were to give a hint, I'd say that context matters. Probably the most dramatic change was from being literally friendless for a few years to hosting parties, simply because I found a social group with common interests (and very common flaws). Also in the context category, I'd say competence helps a lot. You know that "Hermione" stereotype where you can only interact with people by helping them? It actually works. It takes many years, but eventually helping should lead to "working with" and eventually to "leading". Mind the "many years" part though.
- bvoq 5y ago
  I got rejected from many behavioral interviews. In a similar vein, the main thing that helped me was the realization that I had to work on my personality as a whole and then the interviews automatically got better. Especially making projects that showed that I cared about contemporary issues was a big plus. In general: you want to be very humble and appreciative but also enthusiastic about the role. Try to talk about a project/hobby that intersects with the work they do. Try to start off average but once they get to know you, you want to be more friendly/likable (don’t give it your all from the start, it might make you look desperate). Also sometimes it’s not your behavior & there’s nothing you can do but to find another role. In my experience I always found a better job when I was looking for longer so it’s all good.
jollybean 5y ago
If you're really committed, you could collect some data points and take it to the courts. Of course, as with any divisive topic only one 'far side' of the media will want to talk about your case, and you can imagine which network that might possibly be. Such is the ugly problem of challenging populist movements with reason or nuance - your only sympathetic voices end up being those on the 'other far side' who want to use your experience for cynical political purposes of their own.
- packetlost 5y ago
  Nah, the other side would talk about it too, but definitely put a very negative spin on in, possibly going so far as to claim would-be plaintiff is a sexist/bigot.
inafewwords 5y ago
Should have led a meet up group that focused on powershell. Or stretched the truth regarding a bunch of people from your powerful class meeting up. How do they test our interview for socialization anyways?
bush-bby 5y ago
I has a similar experience, and can also say it had a negative affect on me. Hearing that life isn't fair is very different than actually experiencing it. The hard part for me I think is, as a man, it has been hard to find sympathy or empathy. Which realistically I understand, that in A lot of cases men have the upper hand, but it is an unpleasant feeling when you have been beaten by someone demonstrably under qualified in comparison, and each time they fit a specific demographic inverse to your own.

foobiter 5y ago

are you trying to say that a bias towards hiring women in academia means more incompetent women are hired? that’s a rather unfair leap to take!

throwamwayrnrkd 5y ago

Don't apologize. It's healthy to vent in low-stakes settings, and to recognize that you're emotional at the time. I hope that you take another look at the job market. Sometimes you get knocked down through no fault of your own. The people who you are frustrated with have probably experienced that in different ways, but it's never pleasant. You and your talents are valuable, and luck is a big part of life. Keep at it - comparing other peoples' successes or failures to your own is a hedonic treadmill.

radu_floricica 5y ago

How would you go about becoming a better cultural fit? I'm asking with an open mind here, and knowing two things: just telling yourself "you need to be more social" has, if anything, the opposite effect. And God, do I remember hating the feeling. And the second: I did it. Wasn't a huge difference, but went from mostly INTJ to mostly ENTJ over about 20 years. Unfortunately, 20 years is too long to be able to put my finger on something and say "this worked". If I were to give a hint, I'd say that context matters. Probably the most dramatic change was from being literally friendless for a few years to hosting parties, simply because I found a social group with common interests (and very common flaws). Also in the context category, I'd say competence helps a lot. You know that "Hermione" stereotype where you can only interact with people by helping them? It actually works. It takes many years, but eventually helping should lead to "working with" and eventually to "leading". Mind the "many years" part though.

bvoq 5y ago
I got rejected from many behavioral interviews. In a similar vein, the main thing that helped me was the realization that I had to work on my personality as a whole and then the interviews automatically got better. Especially making projects that showed that I cared about contemporary issues was a big plus. In general: you want to be very humble and appreciative but also enthusiastic about the role. Try to talk about a project/hobby that intersects with the work they do. Try to start off average but once they get to know you, you want to be more friendly/likable (don’t give it your all from the start, it might make you look desperate). Also sometimes it’s not your behavior & there’s nothing you can do but to find another role. In my experience I always found a better job when I was looking for longer so it’s all good.

jollybean 5y ago

If you're really committed, you could collect some data points and take it to the courts. Of course, as with any divisive topic only one 'far side' of the media will want to talk about your case, and you can imagine which network that might possibly be. Such is the ugly problem of challenging populist movements with reason or nuance - your only sympathetic voices end up being those on the 'other far side' who want to use your experience for cynical political purposes of their own.

packetlost 5y ago
Nah, the other side would talk about it too, but definitely put a very negative spin on in, possibly going so far as to claim would-be plaintiff is a sexist/bigot.

inafewwords 5y ago

Should have led a meet up group that focused on powershell. Or stretched the truth regarding a bunch of people from your powerful class meeting up. How do they test our interview for socialization anyways?

bush-bby 5y ago

I has a similar experience, and can also say it had a negative affect on me. Hearing that life isn't fair is very different than actually experiencing it. The hard part for me I think is, as a man, it has been hard to find sympathy or empathy. Which realistically I understand, that in A lot of cases men have the upper hand, but it is an unpleasant feeling when you have been beaten by someone demonstrably under qualified in comparison, and each time they fit a specific demographic inverse to your own.