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So someone like Henry Ford who helped popularize cars gets no glory, but someone who dedicates their life to running an orphanage for free does? Sure the latte

So someone like Henry Ford who helped popularize cars gets no glory, but someone who dedicates their life to running an orphanage for free does? Sure the latter is important, and we should talk about them too. But civilization progresses due to risk-takers like Ford who spot an opportunity and dogmatically pursue it.

triceratops 5y ago
> So someone like Henry Ford who helped popularize cars gets no glory, but someone who dedicates their life to running an orphanage for free does? Yeah that sounds about right to me. Ford got a ton of money, what's he need glory on top of that for?
- kortilla 5y ago
  Because we don’t need to glorify pursuits that aren’t advancing society. I’d rather we had another newly minted billionaire employing 60k people with middle class jobs than one more man who helps old ladies cross the street for free.
  - triceratops 5y ago
    It's clear we have very different ideas about what "advancing society" is. I tend to think that people like MLK are the ones that advance society. The man helping old ladies cross the street is advancing society. Successful businesses advance the economy. A billionaire who employs 60k people hasn't done anything altruistic. It's a business, not a charity. The skills and time of those 60k people made the billionaire a billionaire. Why would I laud either side in a fair exchange? I might praise the skill and foresight of the billionaire. I might praise the skill and hard work of the workers. But neither is "advancing society". They're pursuing their own interests.
    - kortilla 5y ago
      Because just keeping the economy going is advancing society. It’s the base that keeps all of the researchers fed, clothed, warmed, etc. Anyone contributing to keeping that functioning is critical. The only people who don’t care about the economy are ones who haven’t lived through a truly bad one. It’s not some thing that just happens in a vacuum to make people rich. It’s what drives 99% of the production of all goods and services in the US. The endowments for all of our top research universities depend on the economy, etc etc. You call it “just a business transaction”, but employing 60k people with good paying jobs in a financially sustainable way is incredible because it means they are producing more than the value of all of those salaries to the wider society. Producing a surplus is how we advance. You can argue that some businesses are leeches because externalities or whatever, but that can be fixed with taxation. When it comes down to it we need to operate at break even or a surplus as a society or we are fucked.
monocasa 5y ago
Henry Ford was literally an inspiration for Hitler and other high level Nazis for his stance on 'the Jewish question'. To the point that Hitler kept a large portrait of Ford in his office, and specifically called him out as an influence on his thoughts on Jews in Mein Kampf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_International_Jew https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_International_Jew So yeah, he shouldn't get glory, but instead only be looked at as an example of 'how to make a bunch of money'. The accumulation of wealth only serves as an example of the accumulation of wealth; the opinions of those accumulating are quite often orthogonal to any other consideration.

triceratops 5y ago

> So someone like Henry Ford who helped popularize cars gets no glory, but someone who dedicates their life to running an orphanage for free does? Yeah that sounds about right to me. Ford got a ton of money, what's he need glory on top of that for?

kortilla 5y ago
Because we don’t need to glorify pursuits that aren’t advancing society. I’d rather we had another newly minted billionaire employing 60k people with middle class jobs than one more man who helps old ladies cross the street for free.
- triceratops 5y ago
  It's clear we have very different ideas about what "advancing society" is. I tend to think that people like MLK are the ones that advance society. The man helping old ladies cross the street is advancing society. Successful businesses advance the economy. A billionaire who employs 60k people hasn't done anything altruistic. It's a business, not a charity. The skills and time of those 60k people made the billionaire a billionaire. Why would I laud either side in a fair exchange? I might praise the skill and foresight of the billionaire. I might praise the skill and hard work of the workers. But neither is "advancing society". They're pursuing their own interests.
  - kortilla 5y ago
    Because just keeping the economy going is advancing society. It’s the base that keeps all of the researchers fed, clothed, warmed, etc. Anyone contributing to keeping that functioning is critical. The only people who don’t care about the economy are ones who haven’t lived through a truly bad one. It’s not some thing that just happens in a vacuum to make people rich. It’s what drives 99% of the production of all goods and services in the US. The endowments for all of our top research universities depend on the economy, etc etc. You call it “just a business transaction”, but employing 60k people with good paying jobs in a financially sustainable way is incredible because it means they are producing more than the value of all of those salaries to the wider society. Producing a surplus is how we advance. You can argue that some businesses are leeches because externalities or whatever, but that can be fixed with taxation. When it comes down to it we need to operate at break even or a surplus as a society or we are fucked.

monocasa 5y ago

Henry Ford was literally an inspiration for Hitler and other high level Nazis for his stance on 'the Jewish question'. To the point that Hitler kept a large portrait of Ford in his office, and specifically called him out as an influence on his thoughts on Jews in Mein Kampf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_International_Jew https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_International_Jew So yeah, he shouldn't get glory, but instead only be looked at as an example of 'how to make a bunch of money'. The accumulation of wealth only serves as an example of the accumulation of wealth; the opinions of those accumulating are quite often orthogonal to any other consideration.