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Slightly OT but is there a resource to find local coffee alternatives – plants that produce caffeine or other mild stimulants – to try to reduce one’s shipping/

Slightly OT but is there a resource to find local coffee alternatives – plants that produce caffeine or other mild stimulants – to try to reduce one’s shipping/carbon footprint? I found it difficult to even know what local alternatives there are. For reference I’m in the US midwest, but I’m curious about how one finds local alternatives that are not one-to-one more generally.

WaxProlix 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Natural_occurrence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Natural_occurrence Not sure what they're referring to by unrelated plants in 'temperate climates', which I suspect parts of the midwest might be generously described as. I bet you could grow some of the linked items in a garden or smallish greenhouse, though.
hundreddaysoff 5y ago
How about chicory? It's naturalized to the US. Easy to grow perennial with pretty flowers that would look great in the garden.
- WaxProlix 5y ago
  Afaik there is no caffeine in chicory, if that's a meaningful discriminator.
SECProto 5y ago
In terms of carbon footprint, coffee (as a low gram-per-serving product) is probably low. For example, I consume ~200g/week of coffee (10kg/yr), all of which would be shipped in 25kg bags from the producing locale to my local roastery. The shipping carbon impact would likely be easily offset by a single consumer item purchased from overseas
- maddyboo 5y ago
  Water usage may be a larger concern than shipping. From Wikipedia: > Coffee production use a large volume of water. On average it takes about 140 liters (37 U.S. gal) of water to grow the coffee beans needed to produce one cup of coffee, producing 1 kg (2.2 lb) of roasted coffee in Africa, South America or Asia requires 26,400 liters (7,000 U.S. gal) of water. Coffee is often grown in countries where there is a water shortage, such as Ethiopia. So, assuming those numbers are accurate, your 10kg year of coffee required 264,000 liters of water, or just over 10% the volume of an Olympic swimming pool (2,500,000 liters). That’s a lot of water. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee#Ecological_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee#Ecological_effects
  - SECProto 5y ago
    Yes, water usage is likely a concern (though not the one the original comment had raised/I responded to). That section of the Wikipedia article is very poorly cited, linking to a single EBI source [1] which doesn't cite a primary source. I'd be unsurprised if coffee (particular wet-processed coffee) used a fair bit of water, but other agricultural products also use more water than people expect - a 500g loaf of bread would need 250 to 2000L of water, according to this one random source [2]. Daily household water usage in North America is in the ~400 litre [3] range (~150000L/yr per person). [1] https://www.eib.org/en/essays/on-water https://www.eib.org/en/essays/on-water [2] https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jan/10/how-much-water-food-production-waste https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jan/10/how-mu... [3] https://www.hamiltonproject.org/charts/domestic_water_use_per_capita_in_gallons_per_day_by_state_2005 https://www.hamiltonproject.org/charts/domestic_water_use_pe...
  - 4gotunameagain 5y ago
    > Coffee is often grown in countries where there is a water shortage, such as Ethiopia. I would imagine that the water shortage is a problem in the low altitude arid deserts near the coast, while coffee is grown in the high altitude inland mountainous regions. Coffee needs a high altitude tropical climate with a lot of rainfall, that's why it is grown in tropical monsoon/rainforest climates (Brazil, Indonesia, Africa) where rain is abundant
doodlebugging 5y ago
Yaupon holly, which grows all over the southeastern US from Texas to Florida is the only naturally-caffeinated plant in the US. https://lostpinesyaupontea.com/pages/yaupon-tea-caffeine-content https://lostpinesyaupontea.com/pages/yaupon-tea-caffeine-con... I have several yaupons in my yard's landscape and have dried the leaves as described and made tea. It has a good flavor and is pleasant to drink. I drink so much coffee though that I could not tell whether I was getting any caffeine. I just felt normal. The bushes grow to small trees that can, over time, completely cover a landscape since the send up sprouts from their shallow roots. This is a sustainable, easy to grow, source of caffeine for areas where it will grow. The berries are excellent food for birds in winter. Our trees were attacked and stripped by flocks of birds in the last days before the big freeze this February. I thought the trees had frozen out but they are now as bushy and vibrant as ever. As far as real coffees from their native environments are concerned I would gladly volunteer my place as a test site for growing a drought tolerant, freeze-tolerant variety as long as I get to taste test it. I drink my coffee New Orleans style with chicory. It is the most delicious morning, noon, evening, and night drink that I have ever had. Smooth, non-acidic, rich, vibrant, fragrant, just plain great liquid energy.
- nieve 5y ago
  > The bushes grow to small trees that can, over time, completely cover a landscape since the send up sprouts from their shallow roots. That makes me worry about it acting as an invasive.
  - masklinn 5y ago
    Yaupon is native to the southern US. If it were going to cover the land it would already have done so. Also technically this description encompasses strawberries. If that were sufficient to be invasive, there’s be way more strawberry bushes out there.
- ianai 5y ago
  Your link: “ We think the magic is actually in the balance of caffeine and theobromine. In addition to caffeine, yaupon also contains theobromine, which most people know from chocolate. Theobromine is similar to caffeine, but has a milder effect. And its uplifting effect is one of the reasons chocolate is known as an aphrodisiac. Theobromine has health benefits as well!” They buried the lede! Theobromine is awesome! Mix in some theanine and enjoy being in flow (or pretty close).
nabilhat 5y ago
That depends a lot on your availability to participate in preparation. Other commenters have mentioned yaupon. I'd bet you have camellias growing locally as well. Commercial tea comes from camellia sinensis, but can also be made from other camellias. If harvesting and preparing isn't your thing, there is some tea that is grown and sold in the US. Not much to choose from, but it's available. If it's not obvious, I've been giving this some thought for a while. I've homeroasted coffee and discovered that I enjoyed the process more than the quality of the outcome. Coffee won't grow well where I live, but camellia does great, and that would give me the opportunity to take on the entire process from root to cup and truly seize the means of my own caffeination.
cout 5y ago
Wikipedia lists multiple places in the US that grow tea. The most notable is a large tea plantation on Wadmalaw island near Charleston, SC. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_production_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_production_in_the_United...

WaxProlix 5y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Natural_occurrence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Natural_occurrence Not sure what they're referring to by unrelated plants in 'temperate climates', which I suspect parts of the midwest might be generously described as. I bet you could grow some of the linked items in a garden or smallish greenhouse, though.

hundreddaysoff 5y ago

How about chicory? It's naturalized to the US. Easy to grow perennial with pretty flowers that would look great in the garden.

WaxProlix 5y ago
Afaik there is no caffeine in chicory, if that's a meaningful discriminator.

SECProto 5y ago

In terms of carbon footprint, coffee (as a low gram-per-serving product) is probably low. For example, I consume ~200g/week of coffee (10kg/yr), all of which would be shipped in 25kg bags from the producing locale to my local roastery. The shipping carbon impact would likely be easily offset by a single consumer item purchased from overseas

maddyboo 5y ago
Water usage may be a larger concern than shipping. From Wikipedia: > Coffee production use a large volume of water. On average it takes about 140 liters (37 U.S. gal) of water to grow the coffee beans needed to produce one cup of coffee, producing 1 kg (2.2 lb) of roasted coffee in Africa, South America or Asia requires 26,400 liters (7,000 U.S. gal) of water. Coffee is often grown in countries where there is a water shortage, such as Ethiopia. So, assuming those numbers are accurate, your 10kg year of coffee required 264,000 liters of water, or just over 10% the volume of an Olympic swimming pool (2,500,000 liters). That’s a lot of water. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee#Ecological_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee#Ecological_effects
- SECProto 5y ago
  Yes, water usage is likely a concern (though not the one the original comment had raised/I responded to). That section of the Wikipedia article is very poorly cited, linking to a single EBI source [1] which doesn't cite a primary source. I'd be unsurprised if coffee (particular wet-processed coffee) used a fair bit of water, but other agricultural products also use more water than people expect - a 500g loaf of bread would need 250 to 2000L of water, according to this one random source [2]. Daily household water usage in North America is in the ~400 litre [3] range (~150000L/yr per person). [1] https://www.eib.org/en/essays/on-water https://www.eib.org/en/essays/on-water [2] https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jan/10/how-much-water-food-production-waste https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jan/10/how-mu... [3] https://www.hamiltonproject.org/charts/domestic_water_use_per_capita_in_gallons_per_day_by_state_2005 https://www.hamiltonproject.org/charts/domestic_water_use_pe...
- 4gotunameagain 5y ago
  > Coffee is often grown in countries where there is a water shortage, such as Ethiopia. I would imagine that the water shortage is a problem in the low altitude arid deserts near the coast, while coffee is grown in the high altitude inland mountainous regions. Coffee needs a high altitude tropical climate with a lot of rainfall, that's why it is grown in tropical monsoon/rainforest climates (Brazil, Indonesia, Africa) where rain is abundant

doodlebugging 5y ago

Yaupon holly, which grows all over the southeastern US from Texas to Florida is the only naturally-caffeinated plant in the US. https://lostpinesyaupontea.com/pages/yaupon-tea-caffeine-content https://lostpinesyaupontea.com/pages/yaupon-tea-caffeine-con... I have several yaupons in my yard's landscape and have dried the leaves as described and made tea. It has a good flavor and is pleasant to drink. I drink so much coffee though that I could not tell whether I was getting any caffeine. I just felt normal. The bushes grow to small trees that can, over time, completely cover a landscape since the send up sprouts from their shallow roots. This is a sustainable, easy to grow, source of caffeine for areas where it will grow. The berries are excellent food for birds in winter. Our trees were attacked and stripped by flocks of birds in the last days before the big freeze this February. I thought the trees had frozen out but they are now as bushy and vibrant as ever. As far as real coffees from their native environments are concerned I would gladly volunteer my place as a test site for growing a drought tolerant, freeze-tolerant variety as long as I get to taste test it. I drink my coffee New Orleans style with chicory. It is the most delicious morning, noon, evening, and night drink that I have ever had. Smooth, non-acidic, rich, vibrant, fragrant, just plain great liquid energy.

nieve 5y ago
> The bushes grow to small trees that can, over time, completely cover a landscape since the send up sprouts from their shallow roots. That makes me worry about it acting as an invasive.
- masklinn 5y ago
  Yaupon is native to the southern US. If it were going to cover the land it would already have done so. Also technically this description encompasses strawberries. If that were sufficient to be invasive, there’s be way more strawberry bushes out there.
ianai 5y ago
Your link: “ We think the magic is actually in the balance of caffeine and theobromine. In addition to caffeine, yaupon also contains theobromine, which most people know from chocolate. Theobromine is similar to caffeine, but has a milder effect. And its uplifting effect is one of the reasons chocolate is known as an aphrodisiac. Theobromine has health benefits as well!” They buried the lede! Theobromine is awesome! Mix in some theanine and enjoy being in flow (or pretty close).

nabilhat 5y ago

That depends a lot on your availability to participate in preparation. Other commenters have mentioned yaupon. I'd bet you have camellias growing locally as well. Commercial tea comes from camellia sinensis, but can also be made from other camellias. If harvesting and preparing isn't your thing, there is some tea that is grown and sold in the US. Not much to choose from, but it's available. If it's not obvious, I've been giving this some thought for a while. I've homeroasted coffee and discovered that I enjoyed the process more than the quality of the outcome. Coffee won't grow well where I live, but camellia does great, and that would give me the opportunity to take on the entire process from root to cup and truly seize the means of my own caffeination.

cout 5y ago

Wikipedia lists multiple places in the US that grow tea. The most notable is a large tea plantation on Wadmalaw island near Charleston, SC. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_production_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_production_in_the_United...