4 ms·

What then is the purpose of demanding others make a public stand on an issue over which they have no practical control?

tshaddox 5y ago
There are plenty of purposes. Why are you and I talking about the issue right now despite presumably having little influence over the outcome?
- yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
  We are willingly engaging in a discussion, which is different from compelling people in a position of power over others to make a statement.
- nailer 5y ago
  The grandparent was asking what those purposes are, not what amount of them there are.
  - tshaddox 5y ago
    And I offered one place to look for an answer: one’s own purposes for engaging in this very discussion.
    - yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
      The logical conclusion here is that you're implying that you can't engage in a discussion without first forcing your employer to vocally take a position on the issue.
    - lliamander 5y ago
      They are not the same. We engaging here in this discussion are genuinely trying to influence a situation over which we have some modest influence (all the while refining our ideas and maybe even learning something). These activists primary motivation is to achieve the high the comes from exerting power over other people.
    - nailer 5y ago
      Whatever your supposed answer is, it’s not obvious. People spending time on HN very clearly have a different purpose from people demanding their employer take a stand on some political position.
- lliamander 5y ago
  I think we're in a much better position to change the culture at Google by having a discussion here on HN than Google is to improve the Palestine/Israel situation by making a statement. I would even say it's a noteworthy possibility, given that many people who are or will be influential at Google read HN. But the distinction here about having a discussion vs. making a demand is also relevant. When someone is demanding you make a statement for seemingly no purpose, the real purpose is to assert control over you.

There are plenty of purposes. Why are you and I talking about the issue right now despite presumably having little influence over the outcome?

yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
We are willingly engaging in a discussion, which is different from compelling people in a position of power over others to make a statement.
nailer 5y ago
The grandparent was asking what those purposes are, not what amount of them there are.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  And I offered one place to look for an answer: one’s own purposes for engaging in this very discussion.
  - yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
    The logical conclusion here is that you're implying that you can't engage in a discussion without first forcing your employer to vocally take a position on the issue.
  - lliamander 5y ago
    They are not the same. We engaging here in this discussion are genuinely trying to influence a situation over which we have some modest influence (all the while refining our ideas and maybe even learning something). These activists primary motivation is to achieve the high the comes from exerting power over other people.
  - nailer 5y ago
    Whatever your supposed answer is, it’s not obvious. People spending time on HN very clearly have a different purpose from people demanding their employer take a stand on some political position.
lliamander 5y ago
I think we're in a much better position to change the culture at Google by having a discussion here on HN than Google is to improve the Palestine/Israel situation by making a statement. I would even say it's a noteworthy possibility, given that many people who are or will be influential at Google read HN. But the distinction here about having a discussion vs. making a demand is also relevant. When someone is demanding you make a statement for seemingly no purpose, the real purpose is to assert control over you.