6 ms·

The canadian government is big into the business of making these kind of "declarations" these days, so our PM can demonstrate to everyone how progressive he is.

The canadian government is big into the business of making these kind of "declarations" these days, so our PM can demonstrate to everyone how progressive he is. Although I don't think Mother Jones is a legitimate news source, so would be careful about taking anything in the article at face value.

jimbob45 5y ago
Why do you find Mother Jones to be an illegitimate news source?
908B64B197 5y ago
> so our PM can demonstrate to everyone how progressive he is. Maybe he should focus on providing vaccines instead (Canada's vaccination rate sits at barely 4% while the US is at 38%) [0] and stop pushing pipelines to export some of the most environmentally destructive oil on the planet [1]. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccinations-tracker.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccina... [1] https://news.yahoo.com/trudeau-stresses-disappointment-keystone-xl-030726282.html https://news.yahoo.com/trudeau-stresses-disappointment-keyst...
- version_five 5y ago
  Not an expert in the oil sands but personally I think there are benefits from getting oil from a virtually uninhabited area in northern canada vs relying on other suppliers. I completely agree on the vaccine issue, Canada had failed miserably vs. comparator nations in this regard.
  - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
    What comparator nations? Do you mean the ones with their own vaccine manufacturing, and the ones that put in place protectionist measures to prevent their trading partners and allies from buying vaccines from them? Canada is just lucky the EU doesn't behave like the US, and we have been able to source vaccines from Pfizer's EU manufacturing. When the chips were down, we couldn't rely on our friends to the south. Now that we have supply, Canada's vaccination rate is climbing rapidly. Well over 50% of the eligible (12+) population and climbing.
    - 908B64B197 5y ago
      > and the ones that put in place protectionist measures to prevent their trading partners and allies from buying vaccines from them? Citation needed? There are no, as far as I'm aware of, any trade restrictions on vaccines being shipped to Canada from the United States. The Trump administration simply invested earlier in promising vaccines, and therefore secured the first deliveries. Canada decided not to do so, and invested later so it wasn't able to secure earlier deliveries. It also wasted time and money backing the SinoVac which failed to deliver anything. > Canada is just lucky the EU doesn't behave like the US, and we have been able to source vaccines from Pfizer's EU manufacturing. When the chips were down, we couldn't rely on our friends to the south. All Canada had to do was invest earlier. I fail to understand how the US are "letting Canada down" by simply... getting deliveries they paid for!
      - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
        https://financialpost.com/news/economy/biden-uses-trumps-america-first-vaccine-plan-to-corner-market https://financialpost.com/news/economy/biden-uses-trumps-ame... Trump enacted controls (used the US Defense Production Act) which prevented manufacturers from exporting until all domestic orders were fulfilled. It was questionable whether it was enforceable, but manufacturers have followed it. Biden has continued this policy. Even to the point of hoarding vaccines not yet approved in the US (AstraZeneca) though they did eventually relent and give a smattering of expiring doses to Mexico and Canada. In addition there's recent controversy about US export controls on medical supplies & materials which would be used for administration or production of vaccines as well: https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/04/24/world/covid-vaccine-coronavirus-cases https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/04/24/world/covid-vaccine-... Canada did invest early. With Pfizer's Belgium plant. But so did everyone else. "There are no, as far as I'm aware of, any trade restrictions on vaccines being shipped to Canada from the United States" -- You're just plain wrong.
        908B64B197 5y ago
        Reading the articles, suppliers are simply delivering the doses in the order they were bought. There's no "evil export restrictions". Other countries simply had to invest earlier, when it was more risky to do so, if they wanted to be the first to get doses.
- bearcobra 5y ago
  Over 40% of Canadians are partially vaccinated
  - geenew 5y ago
    As one of that number I was glad to see this: a single shot of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine is 80% effective in preventing infection (vs the ~90% of two shots): https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/29/cdc-study-shows-single-dose-of-pfizer-or-moderna-covid-vaccines-was-80percent-effective.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/29/cdc-study-shows-single-dose-...
    - bluefirebrand 5y ago
      I'm extremely skeptical of these numbers. I've seen reports as low as 27% effective for first shot of Pfiser and as high as 95%. I'm still getting my first one this weekend but I'm not gonna assume I'm really much safer than I was before.
      - 908B64B197 5y ago
        I'm skeptical too, and I wouldn't gamble on a strategy that wasn't tested during the clinical trials. Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't. It's a pretty risky move to try it out.
- cmrdporcupine 5y ago
  The Canadian vaccination rate is not 4%. It's as of today in Ontario at 60% of adults single dosed (49% of the population, and 58% of those 12+). The Canadian strategy is to get herd immunity on single doses before moving onto second doses. And judging from what I've seen happen in other countries, and from the emerging data about single-dose effectiveness, it's turning out to be the best strategy.
  - version_five 5y ago
    If Canada (Ontario in particular) has such a clever strategy, why are we living under a stay at home order where police have been deployed to prevent us from doing anything but grocery shop? I dont see how anyone living in Ontario could have anything good to say about what I would argue is our governments complete failure to serve its citizens in any way, whether protecting vulnerable people form covid, or even affording basic freedoms ot its citizens. It's amazing to me that in the face of an utter failure by our government, people can pretend that we're doing well.
    - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
      I see you have an axe to grind, but those are two separate issues. And two different levels of government. The federal gov't does not issue stay at home orders. FWIW I think this provincial gov't is mind bogglingly incompetent, and also a bit malevolent.
      - version_five 5y ago
        > FWIW I think this provincial gov't is mind bogglingly incompetent, and also a bit malevolent. Sounds like we're on the same page then :) I'm confused about the rest of your comment - healthcare, and whatever emergency powers they have unconstitutionally used to try and get us to stay home, are the responsibilities of the provinces. Does the federal government have a role in this at all? Are they somehow setting the overall vaccination policy?
        5y ago
- NeutronStar 5y ago
  The PM is totally capable of handling 2 issues in the same week.
bsder 5y ago
> Although I don't think Mother Jones is a legitimate news source I'm calling this out. Does Mother Jones have an agenda? Absolutely. However, unlike some "news" sources, their reporting of actual facts is generally correct.
_qwfv 5y ago
Most progressive folks I know are pretty disillusioned with the Canadian PM for being a Liberal and not at all a Leftist. His treatment of indigenous people in particular is something they've repeatedly pointed out as glaringly terrible.
aussieguy1234 5y ago
In the same way Fox News and the Murdoch owned press has an agenda, so does Mother Jones. However, their reporting is mostly factual. I'd say more so than Fox News https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_controversies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_controversies
perardi 5y ago
So the weird thing is: I can’t find a CBC report on this announcement on Wednesday. Nor any other Canadian news source, even in the weeds ones like iPolitics. Maybe I’m just not searching properly, but I don’t see any other reporting. I mean, they absolutely promised they’d ban single-use plastics, and I was under the impression that was definitely a real thing: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/government-to-ban-single-use-plastics-as-early-as-2021-source-1.5168386 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/government-to-ban-single-us... I just cannot find an actual press release from a government agency as of this week. I’d be appreciative if someone could actually dig that up.
- stardek 5y ago
  I agree it is a bit weird. I also wasn't able to find a recent press release from the government and some of the articles about this from the past week have been using quotes from 2019 (giving the impression, to me, as though they are recent). But in the interest of proving to myself that this isn't all some big hoax I did manage to find the government page listing all the schedule 1 toxic substances [0]. Hopefully that helps a bit. The final item on the list when I write this is "Plastic manufactured items" [0] https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/canadian-environmental-protection-act-registry/substances-list/toxic/schedule-1.html https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services...

jimbob45 5y ago

Why do you find Mother Jones to be an illegitimate news source?

908B64B197 5y ago

> so our PM can demonstrate to everyone how progressive he is. Maybe he should focus on providing vaccines instead (Canada's vaccination rate sits at barely 4% while the US is at 38%) [0] and stop pushing pipelines to export some of the most environmentally destructive oil on the planet [1]. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccinations-tracker.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccina... [1] https://news.yahoo.com/trudeau-stresses-disappointment-keystone-xl-030726282.html https://news.yahoo.com/trudeau-stresses-disappointment-keyst...

version_five 5y ago
Not an expert in the oil sands but personally I think there are benefits from getting oil from a virtually uninhabited area in northern canada vs relying on other suppliers. I completely agree on the vaccine issue, Canada had failed miserably vs. comparator nations in this regard.
- cmrdporcupine 5y ago
  What comparator nations? Do you mean the ones with their own vaccine manufacturing, and the ones that put in place protectionist measures to prevent their trading partners and allies from buying vaccines from them? Canada is just lucky the EU doesn't behave like the US, and we have been able to source vaccines from Pfizer's EU manufacturing. When the chips were down, we couldn't rely on our friends to the south. Now that we have supply, Canada's vaccination rate is climbing rapidly. Well over 50% of the eligible (12+) population and climbing.
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    > and the ones that put in place protectionist measures to prevent their trading partners and allies from buying vaccines from them? Citation needed? There are no, as far as I'm aware of, any trade restrictions on vaccines being shipped to Canada from the United States. The Trump administration simply invested earlier in promising vaccines, and therefore secured the first deliveries. Canada decided not to do so, and invested later so it wasn't able to secure earlier deliveries. It also wasted time and money backing the SinoVac which failed to deliver anything. > Canada is just lucky the EU doesn't behave like the US, and we have been able to source vaccines from Pfizer's EU manufacturing. When the chips were down, we couldn't rely on our friends to the south. All Canada had to do was invest earlier. I fail to understand how the US are "letting Canada down" by simply... getting deliveries they paid for!
    - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
      https://financialpost.com/news/economy/biden-uses-trumps-america-first-vaccine-plan-to-corner-market https://financialpost.com/news/economy/biden-uses-trumps-ame... Trump enacted controls (used the US Defense Production Act) which prevented manufacturers from exporting until all domestic orders were fulfilled. It was questionable whether it was enforceable, but manufacturers have followed it. Biden has continued this policy. Even to the point of hoarding vaccines not yet approved in the US (AstraZeneca) though they did eventually relent and give a smattering of expiring doses to Mexico and Canada. In addition there's recent controversy about US export controls on medical supplies & materials which would be used for administration or production of vaccines as well: https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/04/24/world/covid-vaccine-coronavirus-cases https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/04/24/world/covid-vaccine-... Canada did invest early. With Pfizer's Belgium plant. But so did everyone else. "There are no, as far as I'm aware of, any trade restrictions on vaccines being shipped to Canada from the United States" -- You're just plain wrong.
      - 908B64B197 5y ago
        Reading the articles, suppliers are simply delivering the doses in the order they were bought. There's no "evil export restrictions". Other countries simply had to invest earlier, when it was more risky to do so, if they wanted to be the first to get doses.
bearcobra 5y ago
Over 40% of Canadians are partially vaccinated
- geenew 5y ago
  As one of that number I was glad to see this: a single shot of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine is 80% effective in preventing infection (vs the ~90% of two shots): https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/29/cdc-study-shows-single-dose-of-pfizer-or-moderna-covid-vaccines-was-80percent-effective.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/29/cdc-study-shows-single-dose-...
  - bluefirebrand 5y ago
    I'm extremely skeptical of these numbers. I've seen reports as low as 27% effective for first shot of Pfiser and as high as 95%. I'm still getting my first one this weekend but I'm not gonna assume I'm really much safer than I was before.
    - 908B64B197 5y ago
      I'm skeptical too, and I wouldn't gamble on a strategy that wasn't tested during the clinical trials. Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't. It's a pretty risky move to try it out.
cmrdporcupine 5y ago
The Canadian vaccination rate is not 4%. It's as of today in Ontario at 60% of adults single dosed (49% of the population, and 58% of those 12+). The Canadian strategy is to get herd immunity on single doses before moving onto second doses. And judging from what I've seen happen in other countries, and from the emerging data about single-dose effectiveness, it's turning out to be the best strategy.
- version_five 5y ago
  If Canada (Ontario in particular) has such a clever strategy, why are we living under a stay at home order where police have been deployed to prevent us from doing anything but grocery shop? I dont see how anyone living in Ontario could have anything good to say about what I would argue is our governments complete failure to serve its citizens in any way, whether protecting vulnerable people form covid, or even affording basic freedoms ot its citizens. It's amazing to me that in the face of an utter failure by our government, people can pretend that we're doing well.
  - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
    I see you have an axe to grind, but those are two separate issues. And two different levels of government. The federal gov't does not issue stay at home orders. FWIW I think this provincial gov't is mind bogglingly incompetent, and also a bit malevolent.
    - version_five 5y ago
      > FWIW I think this provincial gov't is mind bogglingly incompetent, and also a bit malevolent. Sounds like we're on the same page then :) I'm confused about the rest of your comment - healthcare, and whatever emergency powers they have unconstitutionally used to try and get us to stay home, are the responsibilities of the provinces. Does the federal government have a role in this at all? Are they somehow setting the overall vaccination policy?
      - 5y ago
NeutronStar 5y ago
The PM is totally capable of handling 2 issues in the same week.

bsder 5y ago

> Although I don't think Mother Jones is a legitimate news source I'm calling this out. Does Mother Jones have an agenda? Absolutely. However, unlike some "news" sources, their reporting of actual facts is generally correct.

_qwfv 5y ago

Most progressive folks I know are pretty disillusioned with the Canadian PM for being a Liberal and not at all a Leftist. His treatment of indigenous people in particular is something they've repeatedly pointed out as glaringly terrible.

aussieguy1234 5y ago

In the same way Fox News and the Murdoch owned press has an agenda, so does Mother Jones. However, their reporting is mostly factual. I'd say more so than Fox News https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_controversies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_controversies

perardi 5y ago

So the weird thing is: I can’t find a CBC report on this announcement on Wednesday. Nor any other Canadian news source, even in the weeds ones like iPolitics. Maybe I’m just not searching properly, but I don’t see any other reporting. I mean, they absolutely promised they’d ban single-use plastics, and I was under the impression that was definitely a real thing: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/government-to-ban-single-use-plastics-as-early-as-2021-source-1.5168386 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/government-to-ban-single-us... I just cannot find an actual press release from a government agency as of this week. I’d be appreciative if someone could actually dig that up.

stardek 5y ago
I agree it is a bit weird. I also wasn't able to find a recent press release from the government and some of the articles about this from the past week have been using quotes from 2019 (giving the impression, to me, as though they are recent). But in the interest of proving to myself that this isn't all some big hoax I did manage to find the government page listing all the schedule 1 toxic substances [0]. Hopefully that helps a bit. The final item on the list when I write this is "Plastic manufactured items" [0] https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/canadian-environmental-protection-act-registry/substances-list/toxic/schedule-1.html https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services...