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The new iPads literally have the same SOC as what are some of, if not the best consumer laptops on the planet currently. But what can you do with them? Not a

by skohan 5y ago

The new iPads literally have the same SOC as what are some of, if not the best consumer laptops on the planet currently. But what can you do with them? Not a heck of a lot, thanks to the walled garden that is iPad OS. If you ask me, that's a crying shame. I don't see how it hurts anyone to allow side-loading of apps on iOS devices. Even if you make it as hard as having a toggle behind a scary warning 2 layers deep in the menu, 95% of users will never use it, and it will open up a world of opportunities for people who actually want to create with their devices.

insert_coin 5y ago
And you can not buy iPads. I know it is completely anathema to suggest something like this on HN these days as the socialist wave completely took it over and the mere suggestion that people have the freedom to not buy something if they don't think it fits within their world view instead of trying to force everyone using the state and the courts to cater specifically to them is now considered a sin, but... You said it yourself, you have a laptop with the exact same chip that lets you do all the things you want, and then you have the iPad that doesn't...why don't you buy the laptop instead? Surely if enough people feel the way you do Apple would get the message.
tshaddox 5y ago
> If you ask me, that's a crying shame. If they ask you, buy the MacBook Air instead of the iPad Pro!
- skohan 5y ago
  The point is that a developer could have a lot of fun experimenting with the tablet form factor and inputs, with the full power of a desktop system (including hardware x86 emulation which is currently unusable!) but we can't because Apple says we can only use the hardware we bought in the way which they intend it. Imagine how you would react with any other product you paid for, and brought into your home, if the company which produced it had the right to dictate how you could and could not use it.
enos_feedler 5y ago
You don’t think Apple has a team of people trying to figure out what you can do with them? iPadOS isn’t designed to cripple the HW, its designed to extract the most from it. Its missing some traditional use cases
- kelnos 5y ago
  iPadOS is designed to extract the most revenue from the hardware, and the users. An more-open platform would allow for many things that would likely be really awesome for users, but is disallowed because that would threaten Apple's revenue streams.
  - skohan 5y ago
    Which is exactly what anti-trust regulation is supposed to protect us from, it's a shame it's quite impotent at the moment
- m463 5y ago
  in a few seconds I can think of many many ways an ipad is crippled. - look at your data directly and back it up - backup and restore the entire device including apps - use ethernet through the lightning port instead of wifi - use general usb devices through the lightning port - wifi scanner (apple disallowed it in ios early-on) - tcpdump network traffic - change the wifi-off shortcut to actually turn it off (matching settings) - firewall I'm sure people can think of other examples...
  - threeseed 5y ago
    iPad Pro supports ethernet and general USB devices. And allowing apps to sniff network traffic defeats the entire security model of the device which many of us like. I want more privacy and security in my devices not less.
    - lupinglade 5y ago
      Sniffing network traffic would not defeat anything, provided you are prompted about the necessary permissions.
mattkevan 5y ago
By create you mean develop, right? The iPad is already one of the best creation tools out there for artists, musicians, photographers etc. I’d suggest the iPad is hampered more by the limits of iPadOS’ multitasking UI and it’s roots as a scaled-up phone OS - and the scarcity of truly pro-level software - rather than the App Store and not being able to sideload. In fact the only real reasons to sideload or jailbreak at the moment are to get around the limitations on running dynamic code - or to use cracked/dodgy versions of paid apps. Wouldn’t be surprised if we see some big improvements in the dev experience over the next few system releases, but to say this will enable a burst of creativity is ignoring all the highly creative ways it’s already being used.
- skinnymuch 5y ago
  No one really jailbreaks for cracked apps. There are many small reasons to jailbreak. Most apps are paid via in app purchases that can’t be cracked. Very few apps are paid and popular enough to be cracked and not crash upon attempting to use. It is something that may have been true a decade ago. The cliche needs to stop ever since in app purchases took over most spending.
  - wokwokwok 5y ago
    That’s because of in-app purchases, which create terrible crippled naggy software. Sadly, this will accelerate the ecosystem away from tools like procreate and affinity into “each brush is $1”. You might be right, but I’m personally sad to see this playing out in a way that makes it worse.
    - skinnymuch 5y ago
      Especially because how big was piracy ever on iOS? It would be a fraction of jailbreakers. Who were always a significant minority of iOS users. So we’re talking under 10% of users who use at least one cracked app at the peak. Most likely. Likely less and def less for people using multiple pirated apps regularly. 5% piracy rate is still not helpful or good to some developers, but that’s not going to do much at all to the bottom line. So yeah unfortunate. Both the high price of yearly or monthly subscriptions and the specific in app purchases for things like brushes.
threeseed 5y ago
Where is the evidence that allowing sideloaded apps will result in an explosion of desktop class apps ? Hasn’t been the case with Android. And I would say the touch centric form factor is far more an issue.
- hyperpallium2 5y ago
  termux is pretty popular. Though android is locking down, making this kind of app difficult in future.
  - threeseed 5y ago
    It’s pretty popular amongst a tiny fraction of the Linux developer community. They are not the type of people who are buying iPads or will be spending big within the Apple ecosystem.
    - skohan 5y ago
      Because they can't
- teruakohatu 5y ago
  I disagree. There are many classes of applications on the Play Store and F-droid not on the App Store, including multiple browsing engines and emulators. I would wager that within weeks or months there would be a full windows VM available for the iPad if it was allowed.
  - threeseed 5y ago
    Apple allows you to sideload those kinds of apps using the developer certificate. Emulators, VMs etc have existed for years. Again it’s far more the form factor that is a restriction than whether it’s downloadable from the store or not.
    - teruakohatu 5y ago
ixacto 5y ago
Being able to dual boot or virtualize Ubuntu and windows 10 on an M1 iPad Pro with 16gb of ram and a touchscreen would be great. Parallels already runs on m1 it wouldn’t be very hard to enable on m1 iPads. It is honestly a better form factor than the laptop as you can just plug in a thunderbird dock and get expanded ports.

by skohan 5y ago

insert_coin 5y ago

And you can not buy iPads. I know it is completely anathema to suggest something like this on HN these days as the socialist wave completely took it over and the mere suggestion that people have the freedom to not buy something if they don't think it fits within their world view instead of trying to force everyone using the state and the courts to cater specifically to them is now considered a sin, but... You said it yourself, you have a laptop with the exact same chip that lets you do all the things you want, and then you have the iPad that doesn't...why don't you buy the laptop instead? Surely if enough people feel the way you do Apple would get the message.

tshaddox 5y ago

> If you ask me, that's a crying shame. If they ask you, buy the MacBook Air instead of the iPad Pro!

skohan 5y ago
The point is that a developer could have a lot of fun experimenting with the tablet form factor and inputs, with the full power of a desktop system (including hardware x86 emulation which is currently unusable!) but we can't because Apple says we can only use the hardware we bought in the way which they intend it. Imagine how you would react with any other product you paid for, and brought into your home, if the company which produced it had the right to dictate how you could and could not use it.

enos_feedler 5y ago

You don’t think Apple has a team of people trying to figure out what you can do with them? iPadOS isn’t designed to cripple the HW, its designed to extract the most from it. Its missing some traditional use cases

kelnos 5y ago
iPadOS is designed to extract the most revenue from the hardware, and the users. An more-open platform would allow for many things that would likely be really awesome for users, but is disallowed because that would threaten Apple's revenue streams.
- skohan 5y ago
  Which is exactly what anti-trust regulation is supposed to protect us from, it's a shame it's quite impotent at the moment
m463 5y ago
in a few seconds I can think of many many ways an ipad is crippled. - look at your data directly and back it up - backup and restore the entire device including apps - use ethernet through the lightning port instead of wifi - use general usb devices through the lightning port - wifi scanner (apple disallowed it in ios early-on) - tcpdump network traffic - change the wifi-off shortcut to actually turn it off (matching settings) - firewall I'm sure people can think of other examples...
- threeseed 5y ago
  iPad Pro supports ethernet and general USB devices. And allowing apps to sniff network traffic defeats the entire security model of the device which many of us like. I want more privacy and security in my devices not less.
  - lupinglade 5y ago
    Sniffing network traffic would not defeat anything, provided you are prompted about the necessary permissions.

mattkevan 5y ago

By create you mean develop, right? The iPad is already one of the best creation tools out there for artists, musicians, photographers etc. I’d suggest the iPad is hampered more by the limits of iPadOS’ multitasking UI and it’s roots as a scaled-up phone OS - and the scarcity of truly pro-level software - rather than the App Store and not being able to sideload. In fact the only real reasons to sideload or jailbreak at the moment are to get around the limitations on running dynamic code - or to use cracked/dodgy versions of paid apps. Wouldn’t be surprised if we see some big improvements in the dev experience over the next few system releases, but to say this will enable a burst of creativity is ignoring all the highly creative ways it’s already being used.

skinnymuch 5y ago
No one really jailbreaks for cracked apps. There are many small reasons to jailbreak. Most apps are paid via in app purchases that can’t be cracked. Very few apps are paid and popular enough to be cracked and not crash upon attempting to use. It is something that may have been true a decade ago. The cliche needs to stop ever since in app purchases took over most spending.
- wokwokwok 5y ago
  That’s because of in-app purchases, which create terrible crippled naggy software. Sadly, this will accelerate the ecosystem away from tools like procreate and affinity into “each brush is $1”. You might be right, but I’m personally sad to see this playing out in a way that makes it worse.
  - skinnymuch 5y ago
    Especially because how big was piracy ever on iOS? It would be a fraction of jailbreakers. Who were always a significant minority of iOS users. So we’re talking under 10% of users who use at least one cracked app at the peak. Most likely. Likely less and def less for people using multiple pirated apps regularly. 5% piracy rate is still not helpful or good to some developers, but that’s not going to do much at all to the bottom line. So yeah unfortunate. Both the high price of yearly or monthly subscriptions and the specific in app purchases for things like brushes.

threeseed 5y ago

Where is the evidence that allowing sideloaded apps will result in an explosion of desktop class apps ? Hasn’t been the case with Android. And I would say the touch centric form factor is far more an issue.

hyperpallium2 5y ago
termux is pretty popular. Though android is locking down, making this kind of app difficult in future.
- threeseed 5y ago
  It’s pretty popular amongst a tiny fraction of the Linux developer community. They are not the type of people who are buying iPads or will be spending big within the Apple ecosystem.
  - skohan 5y ago
    Because they can't
teruakohatu 5y ago
I disagree. There are many classes of applications on the Play Store and F-droid not on the App Store, including multiple browsing engines and emulators. I would wager that within weeks or months there would be a full windows VM available for the iPad if it was allowed.
- threeseed 5y ago
  Apple allows you to sideload those kinds of apps using the developer certificate. Emulators, VMs etc have existed for years. Again it’s far more the form factor that is a restriction than whether it’s downloadable from the store or not.
  - teruakohatu 5y ago

ixacto 5y ago

Being able to dual boot or virtualize Ubuntu and windows 10 on an M1 iPad Pro with 16gb of ram and a touchscreen would be great. Parallels already runs on m1 it wouldn’t be very hard to enable on m1 iPads. It is honestly a better form factor than the laptop as you can just plug in a thunderbird dock and get expanded ports.