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> someone charging an armed cop with a knife or a similar suicidal incident It's weird reading that when I was a kid I was constantly told cops are heroes beca

> someone charging an armed cop with a knife or a similar suicidal incident It's weird reading that when I was a kid I was constantly told cops are heroes because they put their lives on the line where most wouldn't or couldn't. Like I'm an untrained bumpkin, unfortunately if someone had a knife and I had a gun, I can't really think of much more than shooting them. But somewhere along the line the standard for police dropped down to the standard for me? The untrained bumpkin? Since pretty much every time I hear cop by suicide it's apparent, and people still say "well what would *you* do" like that's the smoking gun... - It even extends to more casual cases, the other day there was a video of a lady mooning an officer. The thing is the lady was clearly let go before that fairly stupid act, and last I checked mooning someone doesn't imply you've suddenly become a lethal threat.. but the cop was just so out of shape that shortly after realizing they couldn't keep up with this not very fast person they ended up tasering this person on asphalt. A fully grown adult out cold at running pace straight into asphalt because a cop is so out of shape they can't chase a person who mooned them That's not the picture I grew up with... - I honestly don't have a problem with that though! I don't think we have to force people to gamble their lives for others. There's a certain sense of, "if I can't do it, I can't make someone else do it". But if that's the case then we need to drop a lot of the pretence to traditional policing cops have right now. Like the pay and pensions are all based around the hazard, but it's safer than being a cab driver. Maybe because now fearing for your life is an out to kill people reaching for wallets. And a lot of interactions they have with people, like speed enforcement should probably be dropped, if we're just admitting lethal force has moved up a few notches. And maybe they need to have attachments with them for certain calls. If someone is showing signs of mental instability, someone experienced with dealing with that vs applying lethal force should be directly involved.

makomk 5y ago
The fact that cops are trained is precisely why they shoot people who try and charge them or others with knives. The correct first-line strategy for dealing with a knife attack is not allowing the attacker to close enough distance with you to use the knife, because once they do, regardless of how well trained you are how untrained they are there's still a high chance you'll end up seriously injured or dead. It's that imminent danger that justifies the use of deadly force. As I understand it, every self defence course worth its salt teaches this - even the ones focused on bare-handed fighting. Any tactics for dealing with attackers who do close that gap are just a high-risk last resort for situations where that fails.
- BoorishBears 5y ago
  This is missing the forest for the trees so badly it hurts. Why do you think I said I'd be forced to shoot? Because even without training common sense tells you "not allowing the attacker to close enough distance with you to use the knife" is a pretty good course of action By your logic the moment a person calls 911, the people who are supposed to help, the person has been sentenced to death. Think about that for a second. 1. The cops will arrive 2. "avoid knife getting close to me" 3. Less than lethal is not reliable, hell even lethal force isn't instant, I feared for my life, they're shot very dead. - It's not an easy problem, but how is that ok? There's not many ways to fix it other than trying something other than lethal force. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mzPj_IaMzY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mzPj_IaMzY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G06mi2hVg8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G06mi2hVg8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgdhxLPJBgQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgdhxLPJBgQ Like the stuff in those videos is not easy, I'm not trying to pretend I could do it, or most people could. It requires cops being able to put the most efficient response for self-preservation behind trying to save someone, which again, I'm not saying we require of anyone... But let's call a spade a spade at that point. That's not the concept of policing I see paraded. That's not the "thin blue line", it sounds more like a cell of civilians that are deployed to bad situations where they then "apply self-defense"...
  - Dma54rhs 5y ago
    Have you ever thought about becoming a police officer to be the change you want to have? History shows that is how things change.
    - BoorishBears 5y ago
      Thanks for making my point that the standard for officers is now people who are too scared to put the public before themselves... which is pretty much all of us. The opposite of a thin blue line. > Like the stuff in those videos is not easy, I'm not trying to pretend I could do it, or most people could. I'm not a police officer because I'm not brave enough. I'd fear for my life, and I shoot. So instead of putting myself in a profession that should ideally require more of me, I don't. Not rocket science.

makomk 5y ago

The fact that cops are trained is precisely why they shoot people who try and charge them or others with knives. The correct first-line strategy for dealing with a knife attack is not allowing the attacker to close enough distance with you to use the knife, because once they do, regardless of how well trained you are how untrained they are there's still a high chance you'll end up seriously injured or dead. It's that imminent danger that justifies the use of deadly force. As I understand it, every self defence course worth its salt teaches this - even the ones focused on bare-handed fighting. Any tactics for dealing with attackers who do close that gap are just a high-risk last resort for situations where that fails.

BoorishBears 5y ago
This is missing the forest for the trees so badly it hurts. Why do you think I said I'd be forced to shoot? Because even without training common sense tells you "not allowing the attacker to close enough distance with you to use the knife" is a pretty good course of action By your logic the moment a person calls 911, the people who are supposed to help, the person has been sentenced to death. Think about that for a second. 1. The cops will arrive 2. "avoid knife getting close to me" 3. Less than lethal is not reliable, hell even lethal force isn't instant, I feared for my life, they're shot very dead. - It's not an easy problem, but how is that ok? There's not many ways to fix it other than trying something other than lethal force. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mzPj_IaMzY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mzPj_IaMzY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G06mi2hVg8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G06mi2hVg8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgdhxLPJBgQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgdhxLPJBgQ Like the stuff in those videos is not easy, I'm not trying to pretend I could do it, or most people could. It requires cops being able to put the most efficient response for self-preservation behind trying to save someone, which again, I'm not saying we require of anyone... But let's call a spade a spade at that point. That's not the concept of policing I see paraded. That's not the "thin blue line", it sounds more like a cell of civilians that are deployed to bad situations where they then "apply self-defense"...
- Dma54rhs 5y ago
  Have you ever thought about becoming a police officer to be the change you want to have? History shows that is how things change.
  - BoorishBears 5y ago
    Thanks for making my point that the standard for officers is now people who are too scared to put the public before themselves... which is pretty much all of us. The opposite of a thin blue line. > Like the stuff in those videos is not easy, I'm not trying to pretend I could do it, or most people could. I'm not a police officer because I'm not brave enough. I'd fear for my life, and I shoot. So instead of putting myself in a profession that should ideally require more of me, I don't. Not rocket science.